This made me think. With Trump's age and decline, what happens with his movement? Who takes up the mantel? MTG seems to be the loudest supporter, but I'm not sure she has the charisma that Trump has. Has Trump done enough to create a lasting movement or do his followers collapse in the absence of Trump?
I think it dies. As awful as Trump is, he is soooo charismatic for someone who is open to it. We saw with DeSantis what happens when you have a person that is equally awful but without the charisma. I see Trump like Reagan and his successor like GHWBush where one was beloved and the other not.
But does Trump have charisma, or does he just say and do what so many people secretly want to? Looking or listening to him, there's nothing that screams "Follow me!"
But does Trump have charisma, or does he just say and do what so many people secretly want to? Looking or listening to him, there's nothing that screams "Follow me!"
Yes he has charisma. He says it in a bravado, alpha way that people love. Especially because the majority of politicians these days play it safe and say nothing substantial.
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But does Trump have charisma, or does he just say and do what so many people secretly want to? Looking or listening to him, there's nothing that screams "Follow me!"
Quote:
Originally Posted by GirlySports
Yes he has charisma. He says it in a bravado, alpha way that people love. Especially because the majority of politicians these days play it safe and say nothing substantial.
I think if you buy into Trumps crap, he has charisma to you. But if you don't than it's utterly baffling. He's not smart, attractive, strong, articulate, his success is surround by transparent scams, thinly veiled failures and dumb luck, he doesn't dress particularly well (how do you find tailored suits that fit that loose?), he's not even a good speaker. If you listen to a thing that he says you'd be more likely to expect a raving lunatic in the town square than a man in a suit.
But for some reason, yeah a lot of people eat up and ape everything he says and does.
I think this is truly where the problem lays, I believe when people say they think he has charisma, but I just don't understand it or buy it, and I just can't empathize with the people who do think he has charisma.
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I think if you buy into Trumps crap, he has charisma to you. But if you don't than it's utterly baffling. He's not smart, attractive, strong, articulate, his success is surround by transparent scams, thinly veiled failures and dumb luck, he doesn't dress particularly well (how do you find tailored suits that fit that loose?), he's not even a good speaker. If you listen to a thing that he says you'd be more likely to expect a raving lunatic in the town square than a man in a suit.
But for some reason, yeah a lot of people eat up and ape everything he says and does.
I think this is truly where the problem lays, I believe when people say they think he has charisma, but I just don't understand it or buy it, and I just can't empathize with the people who do think he has charisma.
As George Carlin once said, "Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups".
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If you think that Trump has charisma you are exactly the person they want in their cult. A dumbass. Pretty much anyone supporting the Republican party at this point is a dumbass. Unless of course you are just racist and misogynistic at your core. Then it's a normal day. I mean, there's a reason they don't support education.
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I think if you buy into Trumps crap, he has charisma to you. But if you don't than it's utterly baffling. He's not smart, attractive, strong, articulate, his success is surround by transparent scams, thinly veiled failures and dumb luck, he doesn't dress particularly well (how do you find tailored suits that fit that loose?), he's not even a good speaker. If you listen to a thing that he says you'd be more likely to expect a raving lunatic in the town square than a man in a suit.
But for some reason, yeah a lot of people eat up and ape everything he says and does.
I think this is truly where the problem lays, I believe when people say they think he has charisma, but I just don't understand it or buy it, and I just can't empathize with the people who do think he has charisma.
This is how Psychology today defines charisma,
"A variety of factors can make a person charismatic. They include but are not limited to: confidence, exuberance, optimism, expressive body language, and a passionate voice. People with charisma are often enthusiastic and speak with assertiveness."
Trump definitely checks those boxes. The guy has also been able to remain in the public eye for decades.
"While narcissism and charisma are not the same, narcissistic people have been described as having a “charismatic air,” which may relate to the outward self-confidence or boldness that many narcissists exhibit."
There is another article on the site that talks about the paradox of why narcissists are initially very well received. Apparently narcissists do very well in first impressions
I think if you buy into Trumps crap, he has charisma to you. But if you don't than it's utterly baffling. He's not smart, attractive, strong, articulate, his success is surround by transparent scams, thinly veiled failures and dumb luck, he doesn't dress particularly well (how do you find tailored suits that fit that loose?), he's not even a good speaker. If you listen to a thing that he says you'd be more likely to expect a raving lunatic in the town square than a man in a suit.
But for some reason, yeah a lot of people eat up and ape everything he says and does.
I think this is truly where the problem lays, I believe when people say they think he has charisma, but I just don't understand it or buy it, and I just can't empathize with the people who do think he has charisma.
He had years on a reality TV show where he was propped up as a successful business man. The types of people who watch reality TV all the time are the types who think "this is how rich people are!".
They think that to this day.
It was one of the all time propaganda coups and turned the GOP into a cult of personality.
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Who would be an example of charismatic? Trudeau (both father and son?). Mulroney? Obama?
Definitely not Hillary Clinton which is who Trump targeted in his first campaign. And he's going to use the same playbook against Biden.
Charisma is all about knowing how to appeal to your audience. Trump did this brilliantly, he saw that people were disgruntled by the Washington establishment and projected the sense that an outsider might be able to fix it. Think about unemployment after the 2008 crash. EI in the US was extended to 99 weeks at one point in 2009 and people went past it. Why not vote for change? Hillary never went to these people.
Trudeau did this in the 2015 election as well. When Mulcair inexplicably tried to compete against Harper (thinking it was a 2-horse race) by talking about balanced budgets and a "cautious change", abandoning his base, Trudeau went left of him and promised "real change" and won.
Trump held on the premise of 'real change' for his entire campaign and it worked. Bear in mind, it was tailored to his opponent: Clinton was the darling of the establishment, rehearsed, experienced, a career politician and representing what a lot of people resented or outright hated about the government. Had Sanders or someone a little less representative of the Washington Elite run against Trump it may have been different. But that was the perfect campaign approach to dealing with Clinton: "She represents Big Bad Washington, and I want to come in and change all that." "Crooked Hillary."
How does Trump do this? By bring a bully, he gets his way by brow-beating other people, and making himself the victim, someone you agree with and have sympathy for. Remember his takedown of Jeb Bush? Bush started campaigning in Spanish and Trump attacked him, "We live in the US, we speak English!" How many times have you heard, "people who come to Canada need to at least learn some English." Politicians often doge this question, Trump finally said it.
Think back to the 2016 primaries. Why not Cruz? Why not Jeb? Why not Rubio? Why not Huckabee? Go back to the debates and see how Trump connected. Trump proves the desperation of the American electorate in trying to change the way the system works, to see what would happen if an outsider tried their hand. He appeals to that base. Will it work a 2nd time?
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Last edited by GirlySports; 04-08-2024 at 08:54 AM.
Who would be an example of charismatic? Trudeau (both father and son?). Mulroney? Obama?
Definitely not Hillary Clinton which is who Trump targeted in his first campaign. And he's going to use the same playbook against Biden.
Charisma is all about knowing how to appeal to your audience. Trump did this brilliantly, he saw that people were disgruntled by the Washington establishment and projected the sense that an outsider might be able to fix it. Think about unemployment after the 2008 crash. EI in the US was extended to 99 weeks at one point in 2009 and people went past it. Why not vote for change? Hillary never went to these people.
Trudeau did this in the 2015 election as well. When Mulcair inexplicably tried to compete against Harper (thinking it was a 2-horse race) by talking about balanced budgets and a "cautious change", abandoning his base, Trudeau went left of him and promised "real change" and won.
Trump held on the premise of 'real change' for his entire campaign and it worked. Bear in mind, it was tailored to his opponent: Clinton was the darling of the establishment, rehearsed, experienced, a career politician and representing what a lot of people resented or outright hated about the government. Had Sanders or someone a little less representative of the Washington Elite run against Trump it may have been different. But that was the perfect campaign approach to dealing with Clinton: "She represents Big Bad Washington, and I want to come in and change all that." "Crooked Hillary."
How does Trump do this? By bring a bully, he gets his way by brow-beating other people, and making himself the victim, someone you agree with and have sympathy for. Remember his takedown of Jeb Bush? Bush started campaigning in Spanish and Trump attacked him, "We live in the US, we speak English!" How many times have you heard, "people who come to Canada need to at least learn some English." Politicians often doge this question, Trump finally said it.
Think back to the 2016 primaries. Why not Cruz? Why not Jeb? Why not Rubio? Why not Huckabee? Go back to the debates and see how Trump connected. Trump proves the desperation of the American electorate in trying to change the way the system works, to see what would happen if an outsider tried their hand. He appeals to that base. Will it work a 2nd time?
He appeals to the desperation of older white males without college degrees who live in rural areas. That's about it. Those + evangelicals (a substantive overlap), are pretty much his whole tent.
He ran against Hillary who was the most disliked political candidate of all time. Don't get me wrong, she would have been a great president IMO. Had the policy background and tactical knowhow... but even I didn't like her as a person.
The only good news was that Donald was the 2nd most disliked candidate of all time. Which is why the 2020 election had more voters than any election in US history. Want to say 30%? Literally people out in the streets screaming in celebration when he lost.
I'll give him this - he motivates people to be politically active. The difference is, his voters don't know anything about politics. They just love Trump. Everybody else is like "holy sh-t, I better get out there!".
He could still win through the machinations of the GOP in swing states. Or Biden could die before November and Harris winds up the candidate. But for the most part, you could reasonably expect him to lose the presidency and both houses again - largely thanks to abortion.
He appeals to the desperation of older white males without college degrees who live in rural areas. That's about it. Those + evangelicals (a substantive overlap), are pretty much his whole tent.
He appeals to a lot more people than that. Trump won both working-class white men and working class white women quite handily. And nonwhite working class men are increasingly expressing support for him. Trump has 45 per cent support among Latinos, and 20 per cent among Black voters. But if you break it down to nonwhite men without college degrees, the numbers are even higher.
Quote:
Biden’s support is drooping in these surveys among nonwhite voters of almost every description. But detailed results from the most recent New York Times/Siena College poll show that, among minority voters, Biden now faces the greatest vulnerability with the same group that is toughest for him among white people: men without a college degree. That survey, released early in March, found Trump, stunningly, running even with Biden among those blue-collar nonwhite men, according to the results provided by Don Levy, the director of the Siena Research Institute, which conducts the poll.
He appeals to a lot more people than that. Trump won both working-class white men and working class white women quite handily. And nonwhite working class men are increasingly expressing support for him. Trump has 45 per cent support among Latinos, and 20 per cent among Black voters. But if you break it down to nonwhite men without college degrees, the numbers are even higher.
And for a global perspective, Trump is hugely popular in places like the Philippines, Nigeria, and Kenya.
exactly
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