Vancouver Humane Society Anti-Stampede Ad in the Herald

[Suzles]

Originally Posted by Azure

I disagree. Well, except for the horses used in the chuckwagons as I don't think that is normal at all.

The bucking part is quite normal on any ranch. Part of training a horse is 'breaking' him, and at some point you just have to get on and let him get used to having a rider on his back. During that he will try to buck you off.

If you are truly interested in improving your horsemanship you should check out Monty Roberts' methods. 'Breaking' a horse in is now an outdated term and should be consigned to the history books. The horse is the most noble of animals and should be treated with great respect. The history of the world was founded on this brave animal working with and transporting us.

Also if a horse was bucking every time you rode it, it is either it had a back problem and needed to see a vet - or it was being overfed and under exercised. That is not normal behaviour for a properly schooled and handled horse.

[Azure]

Originally Posted by Suzles

If you are truly interested in improving your horsemanship you should check out Monty Roberts' methods. 'Breaking' a horse in is now an outdated term and should be consigned to the history books. The horse is the most noble of animals and should be treated with great respect. The history of the world was founded on this brave animal working with and transporting us.

Also if a horse was bucking every time you rode it, it is either it had a back problem and needed to see a vet - or it was being overfed and under exercised. That is not normal behaviour for a properly schooled and handled horse.

Bucking is a subjective term. Jumpy might have been a better word to use.

Horse isn't exactly trying to 'buck', but he seems rather nervous at times, despite having been well trained, and it often has to do with cold mornings.

[FlamesGirl]

I don't know any trainer, english or western, who tries to "break" a horse anymore. Whether you follow natural horsemanship or not, good horse people are now doing the ground work involved before introducing saddle/bridle to a horse and making it a pleasant experience, instead of slapping a saddle on and getting the horse to buck it out.

Bucking on a routine ride depends on many factors, but I've rarely seen a horse buck continuously like the broncs do on a "routine ride". Many people consider a kick out a "buck", but I've yet to see a well-trained horse with no medical issues launch a continuous bronco bucking spree.


Azure - Sounds like the horse could have "cold back", if it happens more on cold mornings. Does the back sink slightly when the saddle is being put on or when you mount up?

[Azure]

I'd have to check. I don't do much riding these days, so I'm going by what I remember from a few years ago.

Even if you follow the new routines of 'breaking' a horse, which I have seen many good trainers do over the years, there are still some horses that aren't very particular to having a saddle on their back, much less a rider.

I'm not condoning what the Stampede is doing either. I realize what is done to the horses in order to get them to buck. Just saying that stuff like that is CAN happen in the wild as well.

Ever had a spooked horse go crazy? Seen that happen a time or two. Especially with younger horses who are just in the process of being trained.

There are a lot of things that can happen. Accidents especially.

EDIT: And a horse that falls over and dies from a heart attack? I don't know how much the health of these horses is being checked, but I'd imagine that if the vets knew of a preexisting problem the horse probably wouldn't be ridden.

[Burninator]

To be honest I don`t really know how I feel about this issue, but after looking at pictures from Spain and what they do to bulls; I know the Stampede is not even near the top of the list of things done to animals that needs to stop.

I don`t know how someone can look at picture 39 (among others) and not feel sick to their stomach. They are literally torturing the bulls to death. Despicable.

http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/201...ermin_201.html

[Shnabdabber]

Originally Posted by Muta

Plus, has anyone ever considered that maybe the horses / bulls / calfs like participating in the rodeo? It is entirely possible. They might get huge orgasmic, sexual pleasure out of it. None of us will ever know.

I grew up on a farm just a few miles away from a neighbor who raced chucks (he has won the Stampede, no longer races) and once during a visit to his farm I had a chance to go and ride with him around his practice track.

Once the horses were hitched up, they wanted to GO GO GO. Those things start losing their minds when they even see a chuckwagon. They really do love to run.

I gotta say though, chuckwagon drivers are freaking nuts. Im a bit of a thrill seeker, I love adrenaline rush, high speed, heights, whatever but...
You'll never get me on a chuckwagon again. Hands down the scariest ride Ive ever been on.

As for this whole issue on animal rights at the Stampede... All I can say is I fear a day when the Stampede will be nothing but an art show of glory days gone by. Hope it never happens.

[MelBridgeman]

lol..these people need to get out more, there are waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay worst entertainment sports out there than the 'pede.....look up the Kazakhstan falconer competition....Christ you call yourself the human society and you go after small fish...LMFAO

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by FlamesGirl

I've heard different schools of thought on the "does the horse know it's job is to buck?". The cowboys I know all say the horses DO know their job after the first few years, which is why the majority of the horses at the Stampede (the "pros") stand calmly in the chutes until they're released and usually AFTER the cowboy is off, the bucks lessen in height/intensity.

Other people think more along the lines of Suzles - the open mouth, the white eyes, etc is a sign the horse is panicking because of the tight strap around the horse's flanks/croup - the most sensitive areas and the area horses are the most touchy about due to instinct/physiology. It goes back to when predators would jump on the horses and bring them down; that's where most of the vital organs reside and aren't protected by much.

The young horses are definitely scared. Their whole body shakes and they are usually the ones rearing up in the chute or thrashing around in the chute. Most horses don't want to hurt themselves so the thrashing rarely results in an injury to the horse. Some times a horse will flip over in the chute or get its leg caught where the gate hinges when it rares up. I have never seen a horse seriously injured from this. The serious injuries happen in the arena from broken legs or backs while bucking.

The veteran horses on the other hand are usually pretty calm. You can get your halter and saddle on, climb on and get out of the chute with no incident. These horses will buck till the horn goes and then buck at a lower intensity or break into a gallop. So they know the routine. Some love to buck, some of the horses will explode out of the chute the second they hear the click of the gate latch pushing the gate open themselves.

The cowboys do treat the horses with great respect in either case. There is no advantage to the cowboy for being rough or careless around these animals while you have them in the chute. Anything that can hurt the animal can hurt them as well, a horse flipping over in the chute for instance. So being cautious and courteous to the animal is of the utmost importance to the stock contractor and the cowboys competing.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

I've noticed one thing that has failed to be mentioned, about the Chuckwagons in particular.

Just about all of the horses used by the chuckwagon drivers, their pulling crews, and the outrider horses, are former racing thoroughbreds that have retired from racing.
I've hung out back in the barns a few times, and spoken with some of the drivers/outriders/barnhands, and just about every one of those horses was on it's way to the glue factory when the chuckwagon drivers picked them up to pull their wagons.

The Chuckwagon races do a lot to keep horses, that are past their primes for other horse racing events, around long after they otherwise would have wound up in dog food.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

I've noticed one thing that has failed to be mentioned, about the Chuckwagons in particular.

Just about all of the horses used by the chuckwagon drivers, their pulling crews, and the outrider horses, are former racing thoroughbreds that have retired from racing.
I've hung out back in the barns a few times, and spoken with some of the drivers/outriders/barnhands, and just about every one of those horses was on it's way to the glue factory when the chuckwagon drivers picked them up to pull their wagons.

The Chuckwagon races do a lot to keep horses, that are past their primes for other horse racing events, around long after they otherwise would have wound up in dog food.

Excellent point. Horses are domesticated animals. They do not live in the wild. Some do, but their roots come from the domesticated horses. Horses are no longer used for anything other than recreation. The thought of these horses being liberated from the evil Calgary Stampede and set free in a mountain meadow with grass belly high and a stream running through it is unrealistic.

[peter12]

So I have reached a conclusion over this whole debate. Basically, if you don't think that a cowboy treats his/her horse fairly or humanely, you have to tell it to his/her face in the same passive/aggressive language that you use in the advertisement you spent so much money to take out in the newspapers

That way, you stood up for your convictions, save money, and actually face the consequences of attacking someone's way of life.