BCS Standings

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by troutman

The only way to end all this needless debate is a playoff system. No excuses - the time has come.

No it hasn't.

And if you are referring to the debate of conference ranking a playoff is irrelevant.

If you are referring to determining a NC, I think we have the best system out there. If you want to be in the game, run the table. If not, you roll the dice.

A playoff would do two things:
a) kill the bowl system. the BCS system has hit the lower bowls as it is. A playoff would kill them. I don't want to sacrifice a dozen nights of Insight bowls, cotton bowls, San Francisco bowls, outback bowls, sun bowls etc just for a dumb playoff. Right now, about 25 teams end their season with a W. People are too fixated on a NC, the current system creates more winners. The only problem with the BCS is that it has fixated people on a NC, back in the day 1 vs 2 was very rare, now you are guarenteed a 1 vs 2. if you are an alum, the focus is generally about winning your conf, the bowl game afterwards is just a reason to travel. The playoff system would down grade about half a million road trips created by the current system.
b)downgrade the regular season into what college basketball is. People talk about how great March madness is, and that is true, but nobody talks about how great the 4 month regular season is, because it doesn't matter. A good football regular season game is as imporatant and probably pulls better ratings than a playoff basketball game in March. If I was a conference rep, I'd be an idiot to make my football regular season as irrelevant as basketball.

Folks enjoy the football, enjoy the conference championships and the dozens of bowl games, don't put some much on who the NC is.

Now the one thing I would change is the poll system. I'ts awful, the BCS should be about computer rankings. Computers are far smarter than the idiots who are polled. For one, the idiots who are polled to a ranking in August ... and then use the datapoints that are created by an august poll as important in setting future rankings. Computers are smart enough to know that pre rankings are irrelevant.

Lastly I'd argue the current system is a large success because it created the 4.5 hour senior bowl with JoePa vs Bowden that went into OT a few years ago, Boise State vs Oklahoma last year and many other games where someone walked off the field as a champion. If everyone was just focused on a NC, these kind of games would be less important and a BSU would likely get bounced the next week, making the previous achievement less important.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by transplant99

USC is an elite team, dont kid yourself. So are LSU and Georgia and AZ St and BC and Oregon (with a healthy Dixon) and others.

Look at it this way...if any one of those teams have the scedule that Hawaii has had, do you think any of them would have any different record than Hawaii?

So basically you're saying that a non-BCS team should never play in a BCS bowl.

Hawaii (or any other mid-major) will never have as difficult a schedule as BCS teams. That's not only because of their conference, but because big BCS programs are afraid to schedule teams like Hawaii. If they win then everyone will just talk about how it's another mid-major being exposed. They're better off playing another good BCS school and getting more respect for the victory.

IMO if a mid-major runs the table they deserve a chance to show what they've got. All the teams you listed had their shots and proved they aren't #1 material.

One thing I'd like to see taken more into consideration is non-conference scheduling. I read an article this week about Hawaii doing everything they could to schedule a difficult non-con schedule laced with BCS teams but no one wanted a piece of them (Michigan turned them down for App. St, Michigan St. cancelled on them this season, etc.). In the voters mind that should bump Hawaii up - if they offer to play these top teams and they decline then what the hell else can they do but beat everyone in their path?

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

No it hasn't.

And if you are referring to the debate of conference ranking a playoff is irrelevant.

If you are referring to determining a NC, I think we have the best system out there. If you want to be in the game, run the table. If not, you roll the dice.

A playoff would do two things:
a) kill the bowl system. the BCS system has hit the lower bowls as it is. A playoff would kill them. I don't want to sacrifice a dozen nights of Insight bowls, cotton bowls, San Francisco bowls, outback bowls, sun bowls etc just for a dumb playoff. Right now, about 25 teams end their season with a W. People are too fixated on a NC, the current system creates more winners. The only problem with the BCS is that it has fixated people on a NC, back in the day 1 vs 2 was very rare, now you are guarenteed a 1 vs 2. if you are an alum, the focus is generally about winning your conf, the bowl game afterwards is just a reason to travel. The playoff system would down grade about half a million road trips created by the current system.
b)downgrade the regular season into what college basketball is. People talk about how great March madness is, and that is true, but nobody talks about how great the 4 month regular season is, because it doesn't matter. A good football regular season game is as imporatant and probably pulls better ratings than a playoff basketball game in March. If I was a conference rep, I'd be an idiot to make my football regular season as irrelevant as basketball.

Folks enjoy the football, enjoy the conference championships and the dozens of bowl games, don't put some much on who the NC is.

Now the one thing I would change is the poll system. I'ts awful, the BCS should be about computer rankings. Computers are far smarter than the idiots who are polled. For one, the idiots who are polled to a ranking in August ... and then use the datapoints that are created by an august poll as important in setting future rankings. Computers are smart enough to know that pre rankings are irrelevant.

Lastly I'd argue the current system is a large success because it created the 4.5 hour senior bowl with JoePa vs Bowden that went into OT a few years ago, Boise State vs Oklahoma last year and many other games where someone walked off the field as a champion. If everyone was just focused on a NC, these kind of games would be less important and a BSU would likely get bounced the next week, making the previous achievement less important.

###.

I'm watching a playoff game right now (KU/Mizzou). If there was a playoff system then this is a meaningless game.

College football doesn't need to become more like the boring NFL. I find it hilarious to see the hype for those Pats/Cowboys and Pats/Colts games, but the games are completely irrelevant. All those teams are guaranteed playoff spots - there's essentially nothing on the line.

In college football the games between the best teams are the ones that mean something. In the NFL the games between average teams are the ones that mean something.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by JayP

So basically you're saying that a non-BCS team should never play in a BCS bowl.

Hawaii (or any other mid-major) will never have as difficult a schedule as BCS teams. That's not only because of their conference, but because big BCS programs are afraid to schedule teams like Hawaii. If they win then everyone will just talk about how it's another mid-major being exposed. They're better off playing another good BCS school and getting more respect for the victory.

IMO if a mid-major runs the table they deserve a chance to show what they've got. All the teams you listed had their shots and proved they aren't #1 material.

One thing I'd like to see taken more into consideration is non-conference scheduling. I read an article this week about Hawaii doing everything they could to schedule a difficult non-con schedule laced with BCS teams but no one wanted a piece of them (Michigan turned them down for App. St, Michigan St. cancelled on them this season, etc.). In the voters mind that should bump Hawaii up - if they offer to play these top teams and they decline then what the hell else can they do but beat everyone in their path?

I'm curious which part of my post says that. But regardless, I don't mind seeing them in the Sugar, which is where they will go, and play the winner of LSU and Tennessee.

As for seeing them in the NC, apparently nobody in the polls or computers feel they deserve it. They have one impressive win, that is it.

I think if a school wants to be taken seriously as a NC compeditor, join a good conference. If not, that is fine ... no big deal, you'll win 85% of your games because you have non stop cupcakes, and you'll build a successful programs. Don't use NC's as measuring stick for success, especially for WAC teams.

[JayP]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

I'm curious which part of my post says that. But regardless, I don't mind seeing them in the Sugar, which is where they will go, and play the winner of LSU and Tennessee.

As for seeing them in the NC, apparently nobody in the polls or computers feel they deserve it. They have one impressive win, that is it.

I think if a school wants to be taken seriously as a NC compeditor, join a good conference. If not, that is fine ... no big deal, you'll win 85% of your games because you have non stop cupcakes, and you'll build a successful programs. Don't use NC's as measuring stick for success, especially for WAC teams.

That post was in response to transplants...

Hawaii doesn't deserve to be in the National Championship argument - no mid-major ever will (unless they schedule 4 top 10 teams non-con and stomp them all).

It's not as easy as joining a better conference though. Unless conferences disband there's hardly ever any movement. It'd be especially difficult for a team like Hawaii as there's major travel concerns as well. The Pac-10 would be the only one that might even consider it, but they haven't added a team since 1978 (ASU and Arizona) and it's commisioner is one of the more conservative guys in college football. They wanted Texas to join when the SWC disbanded, but that's a much different case than Boise St. or Hawaii

[ricoFlame]

Originally Posted by transplant99

And did anyone see the ending to the James Madison/ App. St game?

Bizarre.

missed that, what happened?

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by JayP

That post was in response to transplants...

Hawaii doesn't deserve to be in the National Championship argument - no mid-major ever will (unless they schedule 4 top 10 teams non-con and stomp them all).

It's not as easy as joining a better conference though. Unless conferences disband there's hardly ever any movement. It'd be especially difficult for a team like Hawaii as there's major travel concerns as well. The Pac-10 would be the only one that might even consider it, but they haven't added a team since 1978 (ASU and Arizona) and it's commisioner is one of the more conservative guys in college football. They wanted Texas to join when the SWC disbanded, but that's a much different case than Boise St. or Hawaii

ah my bad, I scrolled around and saw you resonding to one of mine.

I agree, not easy for a Hawaii to join a better conference ... Hawaii would have about as a tough a time as anyone. But that's not relevant. Hawaii will do well where they are, if they joined the Pac10 they would just be another team. We'll all talk about them much more, with where they are now.

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by JayP

###.

I'm watching a playoff game right now (KU/Mizzou). If there was a playoff system then this is a meaningless game.

College football doesn't need to become more like the boring NFL. I find it hilarious to see the hype for those Pats/Cowboys and Pats/Colts games, but the games are completely irrelevant. All those teams are guaranteed playoff spots - there's essentially nothing on the line.

In college football the games between the best teams are the ones that mean something. In the NFL the games between average teams are the ones that mean something.

I remember the same concept from the OSU vs Michigan game last year. winner goes on to the BCS championship. If it had a NCAA basketball format with a playoff that would have been a meaningless game.

[nfotiu]

KU/Miss would still be a huge game in a 8 seed playoff system (I can't see them doing more than that for football.) The loser probably wouldn't make it, and the winner would get the top seed.

If you think that people don't care about regular season B-ball and conference tournaments, you haven't lived any where near ACC country. I assume other big b-ball conferences are the same. Around here, the ACC tournament is usually the bigger deal the NCAA.

If the winner of tonight's game loses next week, then it is a toss up between like 7 teams over who gets the #2 ranking, with WVU probably being the safe choice for #1. WVU probably doesn't deserve to be where they are either though. Their big wins were all against teams over-rated at the time. They'd probably be a 3-4 loss team in the SEC. If KU/Miss winner loses next week to OK, then LSU (if they win), Georgia, VT (if they win), USC, Oklahoma, Ohio State, WVU are all pretty much equally qualified.

I can't see Hawaii getting a BCS birth. They jump ahead of what, Texas and Oregon this week. Still puts them at 12th or so in the polls, and the computers hate them. Even if they pass 2 more teams next week, they'll probably be about 10 or 11 in the BCS standings, and maybe 9th at best in the polls. Boise State was way higher than that last year, weren't they? They deserve a shot to show what they've got IMO.

[JayP]

Hawaii gets an instant BCS bid if they finish 12th or higher.

[Flames in 07]

Fotiu, if Hawaii is in the top 12, they automatically get a spot in the BCS, and it would be the Sugar ... those are the rules.

No, I have never lived in a ACC market, and I don't doubt what you say is true ... for very select and limited markets, but NOT for the majority of the country.

And the KU/Miss game would mean absolutely squat if there was a 8 team playoff, both would get in, same with OSU vs Michigan last year, and same with every single game in the first 2/3rds of the season.

Further in a playoff the winner of KU/Mizzou would still be 4 wins away ... in this format they are 2 wins away.

The numbers don't lie, NCCA Football draws massive numbers ... and those numbers jumped the day the BCS was structured. It's infinately more popular than college basketball, and the importance of the regular season is the number 1 reason why.

[nfotiu]

Originally Posted by Flames in 07

Fotiu, if Hawaii is in the top 12, they automatically get a spot in the BCS, and it would be the Sugar ... those are the rules.

No, I have never lived in a ACC market, and I don't doubt what you say is true ... for very select and limited markets, but NOT for the majority of the country.

And the KU/Miss game would mean absolutely squat if there was a 8 team playoff, both would get in, same with OSU vs Michigan last year, and same with every single game in the first 2/3rds of the season.

Further in a playoff the winner of KU/Mizzou would still be 4 wins away ... in this format they are 2 wins away.

The numbers don't lie, NCCA Football draws massive numbers ... and those numbers jumped the day the BCS was structured. It's infinately more popular than college basketball, and the importance of the regular season is the number 1 reason why.

Didn't know about the top 12 rule, that's cool.

If KU doesn't have a big come back, they could easily fall out of the top 8 by the end of the year, especially if there was a rule that let HI into the playoff system. No one believed KU was good anyway, the voters will be quick to drop them like a rock.

[Flames in 07]

Mizzou's offence looks like Florida ... very impressive.

Anyway, Fotiu, we'll see about KU, but that's just half of it, in a playoff Mizzou would have a ton of games left to win, again decreasing the importance of the game.

This game on right now is with two teams that have no prestige around the country and I bet it's ratings will be better than any college basketball regular season game ... or conference playoff game for the entire season ... can't be that bad of a setup.

[Displaced Flames fan]

Still hope for KU, but they have to get a stop.

[ricoFlame]

mizzou...solid game, good team. nice

[ricoFlame]

Mizzou, west virginia are 1-2 in the new AP poll, with OSU, Georgia and LSU rounding out the top 5. Kansas is 7, Hawaii 11. This has no bearing on the BCS, but still interesting.

[Flames in 07]

The way the BCS seems to be shaping up here is:
championship: WVA vs Mizzou
Sugar: LSU/Tenn vs Hawaii
Rose: USC vs OSU
Fiesta: KU vs ASU
Orange: Georgia vs VA Tech

3 big games that impact this is the big xii championship usc over ucla and asu vs ua

[ricoFlame]

Here are the results from the latest USA today poll:

1. West Virginia (37) 10-1 1467 3
2. Missouri (17) 11-1 1454 4
3. Ohio State (6) 11-1 1383 5
4. Georgia 10-2 1232 7
5. Kansas 11-1 1161 2
5. Virginia Tech 10-2 1161 8
7. LSU 10-2 1134 1
8. Oklahoma 10-2 1126 9
9. USC 9-2 1073 12
10. Hawaii 11-0 958 13

[Flames in 07]

Originally Posted by nfotiu

Didn't know about the top 12 rule, that's cool.

If KU doesn't have a big come back, they could easily fall out of the top 8 by the end of the year, especially if there was a rule that let HI into the playoff system. No one believed KU was good anyway, the voters will be quick to drop them like a rock.

With both polls in KU is still in the top 8. A playoff system would have meant that the big game last night would have been 100% irrelevant. For about a century college football has been all about the importance of every game. Playoffs kill that.

[ricoFlame]

here's the new BCS standings http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/BCSStandings:

This is how they look:

1. Missouri 11-1
2. West Virginia 10-1
3. Ohio State 11-1
4. Georgia 10-2
5. Kansas 11-1
6. Virginia Tech 10-2
7. LSU 10-2
8. USC 9-2
9. Oklahoma 10-2
10. Florida 9-3
11. Boston College 10-2
12. Hawaii 11-0

Hawaii is officially in the top 12 of the BCS.