[PGT] Flames 1 @ Golden Knights 6

[Badgers Nose]

Sharky is is a highly paid public person, media have the right to say almost anything they want about him. Certainly attacking his play this season and last is in bounds.

He doesn't need anyone here to defend him.

I like that Bieksa has strong opinions and I will trust his 500+ NHL games and few years of watch and commenting on so many NHL games over hockey forum posters.

Folks are giving him credit for busy work. Yegor is smart enough to pad those stats with easy perimeter play while doing almost nothing else. He's here for the pay check. He doesn't care about losing, fan hate, or any of that stuff. He shows up and puts in what he thinks is a fair effort and that's all you are ever going to get from him. Do I know that for certain? No. But I am old and have worked on and led high performing teams for decades and I have seen guys like this. All the tools. None of the GAF. He's got his money now - you'll never take that away from him. That's all that matters. If he watched that clip, he would have had a chuckle, 'why you haf to be so mad, is just game?.'

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I thought the Bieksa thing wais kind of unfair.

The Flames as a team were terrible, singling out one player on one play as the problem is almost cruel.

When said player just doesn't play that style of game it's even more misplaced.

I'm a meat and potatoes guy so Sharangovich isn't my kind of player for sure, but he's been playing better lately and had about 15 teammates that likely had worse games than he did last night.

Unnecessary drive by on an individual when the team should have felt the brunt.

He is a goal scorer with one assist, coming off of a terrible season where his give a crap meter was on empty most the season. Nobody was expecting him to run players over, but him deciding not to finish a check and laying up like he did is further reflection of his effort level since signing his new contract.

His possession numbers might have been slightly better then some other players that night, but that doesn't have anything to do with what Bieksa was saying. I don't think Bieksa said what he said based on one play either. He doesn't have a history of calling guys out in that way.

My guess is he heard things from some of the players.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You slam the player daily though.

I'm not suggesting he's bowling players over on a nightly basis, in fact he never will ... but last night he was one of the least deserving players for an individual attack, and the stats support that.

So what? We've got 161 games of this guy in a Flames uniform. We gave him a pass last season because he was supposedly playing through an injury. But let's be real, even in his 30 goal season he didn't really show up until mid-way through the season. I'm not asking Sharangovich to throw bone crunching checks. But I do expect the guy to battle. Instead the guy just gives up on plays and barely puts in any effort. If there's any push back from the opposition he just coughs up the puck. He's embarrassing to watch most nights.

Sure he's not alone in being trash this season. But that lacking in GAF rubs off on other guys.

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by cannon7

So what? We've got 161 games of this guy in a Flames uniform. We gave him a pass last season because he was supposedly playing through an injury. But let's be real, even in his 30 goal season he didn't really show up until mid-way through the season. I'm not asking Sharangovich to throw bone crunching checks. But I do expect the guy to battle. Instead the guy just gives up on plays and barely puts in any effort. If there's any push back from the opposition he just coughs up the puck. He's embarrassing to watch most nights.

Sure he's not alone in being trash this season. But that lacking in GAF rubs off on other guys.

The bolded is my only point.

He shouldn't have been singled out.

The final sentence is conjecture.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I thought the Bieksa thing wais kind of unfair.

The Flames as a team were terrible, singling out one player on one play as the problem is almost cruel.

When said player just doesn't play that style of game it's even more misplaced.

I'm a meat and potatoes guy so Sharangovich isn't my kind of player for sure, but he's been playing better lately and had about 15 teammates that likely had worse games than he did last night.

Unnecessary drive by on an individual when the team should have felt the brunt.

I’d agree with you if it was any player other than Sharangovich.

He got paid and has morfed into Kotalik.

[bettercallbettman]

Bieksa is awesome. Softies on CalgaryPuck. The millionaire sharangovich, will be just fine getting called out for his poor play.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The bolded is my only point.

He shouldn't have been singled out.

The final sentence is conjecture.

Everybody else isn't on game 90 of playing that way. Plus, Bieksa wasn't talking about effective play, he was talking about effort. Most of the Flames have been working hard, just not getting results.

[cannon7]

Originally Posted by Bingo

The bolded is my only point.

He shouldn't have been singled out.

The final sentence is conjecture.

He should have been singled out. If Bieksa just craps on the whole team that spreads the blame around, makes it easy for guys to make excuses. But pick a high paid player who is not putting the work in and other guys are going to realize that this crap is not going unnoticed and they may be next on the shameful highlight reel.

And frankly, Bieksa could compile 5-6 clips of Sharangovich doing this most games. I don't care about Sharangovich's perimeter play padding his possession stats.

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Bingo

You slam the player daily though.

I'm not suggesting he's bowling players over on a nightly basis, in fact he never will ... but last night he was one of the least deserving players for an individual attack, and the stats support that.

I don’t understand most of the analytical stats. But I’ve been watching him for a year with my eyes. He’s a floater. He avoids contact at all costs. Most games he puts out zero effort. He’s paid to score goals and he generates zero offense.

It’s true there are many players that aren’t living up to their standard. But at least they try to live up to it.

Sharangovich looks like he’s planning to float through the next 5 years. That’s why I comment on him. I find that unacceptable. Especially when there are young guys who could step in and at least put in the effort.

He’s the one guy who always seems to get a pass and I don’t think he should get one anymore.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Everybody else isn't on game 90 of playing that way. Plus, Bieksa wasn't talking about effective play, he was talking about effort. Most of the Flames have been working hard, just not getting results.

Neither is he. His back half was strong last year.

Zary has been average to poor since last year but some people want him moved up the lineup and rewarded, while similar aged guys like Farabee are going the other direction and people want him bought out or moved down the lineup.

Not a lot of consistency in these positions.

[Rhett44]

Originally Posted by Bingo

I thought the Bieksa thing wais kind of unfair.

The Flames as a team were terrible, singling out one player on one play as the problem is almost cruel.

When said player just doesn't play that style of game it's even more misplaced.

I'm a meat and potatoes guy so Sharangovich isn't my kind of player for sure, but he's been playing better lately and had about 15 teammates that likely had worse games than he did last night.

Unnecessary drive by on an individual when the team should have felt the brunt.

Bieksa gave real analysis of what he saw. A player that is giving zero effort.

On a good team he isn't on their starting roster anyways, the only reason he is still getting regular shifts is because of his contract. And because 90% of our team has zero talent.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Neither is he. His back half was strong last year.

Zary has been average to poor since last year but some people want him moved up the lineup and rewarded, while similar aged guys like Farabee are going the other direction and people want him bought out or moved down the lineup.

Not a lot of consistency in these positions.

There hasn't been space for Zary since bringing on Farabee and Frost. His performance reflects his opportunity. Farabee has played well this season. What does either of those have to do with Sharongovich lack of effort?

As for Sharongovich, he had a portion of the last half of last season where he was better. But your overstating it to say he had a strong second half. Regardless, this wasn't a 1 game or 1 play sample that Bieksa was using when calling him out at harshly as he did.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Neither is he. His back half was strong last year.

Zary has been average to poor since last year but some people want him moved up the lineup and rewarded, while similar aged guys like Farabee are going the other direction and people want him bought out or moved down the lineup.

Not a lot of consistency in these positions.

I'm consistent on mine.

Sharangovich shouldn't be playing, or shouldn't be playing where he is.

Zary should be playing above him, and Gridin should be as well. Now if Zary is moved up, then yeah we probably also can't recall Gridin.

...unless the Flames ditch this loser approach of having a bad 4th line with 'grit' like Lomberg for 'culture' reasons.

Huberdeau - Kadri - Farabee
Zary - Frost - Coronato
Honzek - Backlund - Coleman
Gridin - Kerins - Klapka


With that said, it doesn't really bother me. The losses piling up is more important to this team long term than shuffling pieces around.

[Lewis_D]

6 games in and Bean, Farabee, and Sharky have already been the whipping boy at some point. That title is going to get thrown around like a hot potato this season!

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by kehatch

There hasn't been space for Zary since bringing on Farabee and Frost. His performance reflects his opportunity. Farabee has played well this season. What does either of those have to do with Sharongovich lack of effort?

As for Sharongovich, he had a portion of the last half of last season where he was better. But your overstating it to say he had a strong second half. Regardless, this wasn't a 1 game or 1 play sample that Bieksa was using when calling him out at harshly as he did.

There’s space for guys like Gridin, Farabee, Honzek, Frost, etc, but no space for Zary? Maybe it’s because, like Sharangovich, he’s been playing terribly. His opportunity reflects his performance. Farabee on the other hand can take 4th line shifts and actually play well.

What they have to do with Sharangovich is totally randomized player evaluation based on (from what I can tell) nothing. Sharangovich has been bad, Zary has been worse, Farabee has been good. Yet people want Zary (the worst of the three) rewarded and the other two (including the best of the three) punished. It’s weird.

And no, Sharangovich did have a strong half. He was the 4th best forward in goals and points for both the last 21 games and 41 games (so it wasn’t just a blip somewhere in the last half). Not sure why you’re pretending otherwise.

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I'm consistent on mine.

Sharangovich shouldn't be playing, or shouldn't be playing where he is.

Zary should be playing above him, and Gridin should be as well. Now if Zary is moved up, then yeah we probably also can't recall Gridin.

...unless the Flames ditch this loser approach of having a bad 4th line with 'grit' like Lomberg for 'culture' reasons.

Huberdeau - Kadri - Farabee
Zary - Frost - Coronato
Honzek - Backlund - Coleman
Gridin - Kerins - Klapka

Sharangovich is playing the least out of the top 9, not sure he can play much lower without looking even worse. Zary has been just as bad or worse, so I’m not sure he deserves anything better, and Gridin was fairly above Sharangovich when he was up.

I’d be fine with a lineup like you have listed, but I’d swap Gridin and Zary. No sense moving a guy like Sharangovich out of the lineup just to reward a worse player in Zary when a guy like Gridin has actually shown flashes more recently.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Neither is he. His back half was strong last year.

Zary has been average to poor since last year but some people want him moved up the lineup and rewarded, while similar aged guys like Farabee are going the other direction and people want him bought out or moved down the lineup.

Not a lot of consistency in these positions.

Salaries set higher expectations

[TheScorpion]

Dating back to the start of last season, Matt Coronato has 25 points at 5v5 and Yegor Sharangovich has 21.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

It was garbage time and the Knights were coasting. and they still got as many chances including a 2 on 0.

They play that way off the top against Vegas and it's 10-3.

We don’t know what the score would be because we’ve never seen it.
Johnny, Sean and Elias were turned loose for career seasons when they focused on pure offence and just that line played loose within the system.

I’d argue you could do the same, at the very least you could try it.
Are you saying VGK stopped trying? I certainly don’t see it that way, they were going hard right to the final buzzer.

We keep this narrative that we have to be uber defensively structured because we don’t have the firepower to keep up and we’ll get smashed into the ground, but we’ve never tried so how do we know?

I’m not saying ignore it all game for all lines, you have 3 other lines that can focus on that when they’re on the ice. But when you’re taking offensive zone starts and need to score goals… you won’t convince me that playing aggressively offensive and creative could be any worse than what we’re watching, I’m sorry it’s just not true.

I’d rather lose 7-4 than 6-1, but truth be told if some how our guys can get creative and score goals and wolf starts playing his vezina calibre keep the team alive style he played all last year, heck maybe we’d even win a few games.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Rhett44

You're right. If we are rebuilding, it certainly wasn't by choice.

So we have landed on it is the biggest tear down rebuild in history but it was not by choice. I guess that is progress that there is consensus on that point.

I don’t think there has ever been a team that did it willingly or pre-emptively though. It is not like the Maple Leafs are like “we are not likely going to win the Cup so we will trade Matthews, Nylander, Tavares and Reilly now to maximize value” or the Lightning are like “we are probably not winning another Cup, we better trade Kucherov, Vasilevsky, Point, Guentzel and Herman now to maximize value.”

But an acknowledgment that the Flames are in the middle of the biggest sell off rebuild in salary cap history is a starting point to reaching consensus on what they are doing.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Is the prevailing sentiment that the guys who spent the last six months talking about how this team was the mushy middle and that they had to trade guys like Kadri to actually get a good draft pick are suddenly right because the team looks destined for a high draft pick, not the mushy middle, and haven’t traded anyone?

<5 guys who post the same thing 20 times a day>: "we need to trade all the vets so we can tank to the bottom!"

<same 5 guys, now that the team is in last>: "the vets are terrible - we need to trade them all!"