[News] Wolf named AHL MVP and goaltender of the year

[SilverKast]

Originally Posted by Ford Prefect

Sorry. I’ll show myself out.

Yerrrr outttttaaaaa heeeeeerrrrrreeeee....

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Eb0la11

They need to address the three headed monster. Need to move on from Vladar and get a decent return from him. Maybe they will let him play a few extra games to start the year and build his stats a bit then trade him?

I don't think they need to, imo. This isn't the Treliving three headed monster with three NHL goalies needing to be juggled constantly.

This is a hot prospect who will get thrown in here and there at the NHL level. If he takes the reigns, Conroy makes a decision on one of the two veterans (likely Vladar due to contract) and we're good. Or Wolf shows he needs more seasoning and he's fine being a star in the AHL for the time being.

Nothing to address right now, imo. They can watch it play out, no problem.

[getbak]

Wolf is waiver exempt, so they can recall him to play a game, then send him back down (the hall). It's not the same issue they had trying to juggle Ortio.

I believe Nashville did the same with Saros when he was on his ELC.

[dobbles]

Originally Posted by getbak

Wolf is waiver exempt, so they can recall him to play a game, then send him back down (the hall). It's not the same issue they had trying to juggle Ortio.

I believe Nashville did the same with Saros when he was on his ELC.

If they send Wolf down simply because they can, it will be an embarrassment for the franchise. There is nothing left for Wolf to do in the AHL. You guys have to find a way to get rid of Vladar and avoid the goalie mess.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by dobbles

If they send Wolf down simply because they can, it will be an embarrassment for the franchise. There is nothing left for Wolf to do in the AHL. You guys have to find a way to get rid of Vladar and avoid the goalie mess.

Embarrassment seems a bit strong. If Vladar and Markstrom are playing well, then its fine. If its like last year and they are both terrible, then yes its embarrassing.

The Stars had Oettinger in the minors to start the season that year he nearly goalied us in the playoffs and that was after he spent most of the previous year in the NHL. The Predators has Saros down in the minors after he had shown he was good in the NHL because he wasn't playing much because Rinne was playing well.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I would have no qualms about sending down Wolf just to get everyone playing time. Eventually something opens up, and he comes into the NHL. Keeping him up and having 3 goalies at practice is awkward. Sending Vladar down and hoping he passes through waivers is a little short-sighted - that's an asset that you are throwing away.


Would anyone be happy if the cost to unload Vladar was Suniev? That's essentially what you end up doing if Vladar gets claimed. Injuries happen, and Vladar to this point has shown himself to be a reliable backup and perhaps capable of becoming a starter. Let's not throw away assets, especially when we know Conroy is going to directly talk to Wolf and let him know exactly why he is being sent down, and that it is temporary. If you have listened to Conroy speak about Wolf at any time lately, he believes that Wolf is done with the AHL and should be in the NHL. I just don't think that he should just simply throw away assets to make it happen on day 1, when by day 30 of the NHL there may be huge changes to the landscape of the goalie market.

[Robbob]

Plus the entire league knows the situation flames are in. Unless their is a goalie injury on this team or another, expect Wolf to start in the AHL because he can with no risk.

[Party Elephant]

Originally Posted by tvp2003

I’m assuming you mean Jim Abbott — he had two arms but only one hand. The interesting thing is that he was an excellent fielder, likely because he knew he had to be (as otherwise the other team would try to bunt on him to get on base).

No one's going to mention that he played for the Calgary Cannons??

[Bingo]

Originally Posted by dobbles

If they send Wolf down simply because they can, it will be an embarrassment for the franchise. There is nothing left for Wolf to do in the AHL. You guys have to find a way to get rid of Vladar and avoid the goalie mess.

From everything I've heard Wolf has been very involved in his development plan from the get go.

I doubt that will change.

Simply explaining to the player that they want him to get an AHL workload supplemented with a decent sized dose of NHL experience from the beginning of camp (they likely have already talked to him) won't be insulting or an embarrassment.

Keep hearing the kid wants to play. He likely likes the plan.

[Enoch Root]

Yeah, it's anything but an embarrassment.

It's a perfect situation actually, because they can move him back and forth as much as they like, with no travel required, while they give him as many games, in both the NHL and AHL, as they like. Meanwhile, it alleviates the problem of having to move a goalie - they can sit back and wait until teams become desperate, as injuries force their hands. THEN they can trade Vladar, and get a good return, after already seeing Wolf in some NHL games, and having a better idea of where he is at, developmentally.

[dobbles]

Why even bother keeping him under contract if you aren't going to play him??? I'm not even being hyperbolic here. Dude has over 6000 minutes in the AHL where he has shown he is the best at that level. So if you send him back down, why? What is the point? What will he learn? That no matter how much he succeeds that he is not good enough to crack the tandem that had the 8th worst save percentage in the league????

You leave people in the AHL to grow and develop. To get used to playing in a mens league. To get used to the travel. To get used to the longer seasons. Wolf has learned all that and destroyed everyone while doing it.

Let's be honest here; there isn't a whole lot to be excited about for you guys these last 12 months. But you could have a franchise goalie in your midst and are too afraid to give him a try. Is he a sure shot? Of course not. But lets go ahead and hold him back because we are worried about asset management of Dan frickin Vladar??????? I really feel like I am in ####oo land listening to you guys.

And great on Wolf if he has been involved in his development. And even more on him that he would be willing to keep developing. That doesn't make it a good idea. I've said his before but think about this in any context but sports. If I was a salesperson and was breaking records every year for my districts, would you keep me from the fortune 500 clients because the 2 sales people that cover those have been mediocre at best? If you keep telling me as a salesman that I need more time to improve, I'm hitting indeed to find a new gig. The only difference here is Wolf is stuck.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by dobbles

Why even bother keeping him under contract if you aren't going to play him??? I'm not even being hyperbolic here. Dude has over 6000 minutes in the AHL where he has shown he is the best at that level. So if you send him back down, why? What is the point? What will he learn? That no matter how much he succeeds that he is not good enough to crack the tandem that had the 8th worst save percentage in the league????

You leave people in the AHL to grow and develop. To get used to playing in a mens league. To get used to the travel. To get used to the longer seasons. Wolf has learned all that and destroyed everyone while doing it.

Let's be honest here; there isn't a whole lot to be excited about for you guys these last 12 months. But you could have a franchise goalie in your midst and are too afraid to give him a try. Is he a sure shot? Of course not. But lets go ahead and hold him back because we are worried about asset management of Dan frickin Vladar??????? I really feel like I am in ####oo land listening to you guys.

And great on Wolf if he has been involved in his development. And even more on him that he would be willing to keep developing. That doesn't make it a good idea. I've said his before but think about this in any context but sports. If I was a salesperson and was breaking records every year for my districts, would you keep me from the fortune 500 clients because the 2 sales people that cover those have been mediocre at best? If you keep telling me as a salesman that I need more time to improve, I'm hitting indeed to find a new gig. The only difference here is Wolf is stuck.

Relax. Nobody said 'don't play him'. What we are saying is that the Flames can play him but also keep him on a full workload, using AHL games. He is not going to be the starter for the Flames, playing 60 games this year. THat is not going to happen, and is not at all a realistic expectation, nor a good strategy. As the backup, he might get 20-25, but that isn't enough action for a kid his age. So getting AHL games in will keep his workload up.

As for Vladar, the organization is a little bigger than one young prospect - you have to manage the entire roster. And it is possible to manage Vladar and Wolf at the same time.

Also, developing young athletes is nothing like being a sales rep who deserves bigger clients. If that's your argument, you might want to gear down a little.

Show some patience.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by dobbles

Why even bother keeping him under contract if you aren't going to play him??? I'm not even being hyperbolic here. Dude has over 6000 minutes in the AHL where he has shown he is the best at that level. So if you send him back down, why? What is the point? What will he learn? That no matter how much he succeeds that he is not good enough to crack the tandem that had the 8th worst save percentage in the league????

You leave people in the AHL to grow and develop. To get used to playing in a mens league. To get used to the travel. To get used to the longer seasons. Wolf has learned all that and destroyed everyone while doing it.

Let's be honest here; there isn't a whole lot to be excited about for you guys these last 12 months. But you could have a franchise goalie in your midst and are too afraid to give him a try. Is he a sure shot? Of course not. But lets go ahead and hold him back because we are worried about asset management of Dan frickin Vladar??????? I really feel like I am in ####oo land listening to you guys.

And great on Wolf if he has been involved in his development. And even more on him that he would be willing to keep developing. That doesn't make it a good idea. I've said his before but think about this in any context but sports. If I was a salesperson and was breaking records every year for my districts, would you keep me from the fortune 500 clients because the 2 sales people that cover those have been mediocre at best? If you keep telling me as a salesman that I need more time to improve, I'm hitting indeed to find a new gig. The only difference here is Wolf is stuck.

What are you talking about?

Nobody is afraid of giving Wolf a shot and nobody is wanting to keep him in the AHL. It's not about learning, either, Conroy himself already said Wolf is at the point where he would have to prove he doesn't belong in the NHL rather than prove he does.

It's about getting him a lot of games, which is crucial for any starting goaltender regardless of whether they need it for development or need it to maintain their high level of play. His current contract situation makes it extremely easy to get him a steady amount of NHL games while ensuring he doesn't ever have to sit for extended periods if Markstrom and Vladar are both back to form and there aren't any openings around the league. It's no longer a matter of "if" he's an NHLer, it's how soon this season he sticks permanently. And if he plays the way he's been playing, it could be as soon as Game 1.

I don't see any reason to be overly dramatic about it or pretend this is just like some low-rent salesperson job. He's not selling vacuum players, he's a goaltending prospect.

[liamenator]

Wolf starting 10 fewer NHL games in his rookie season and getting a little bit of extra seasoning in the AHL is a reasonable price to pay in order to manage the assets properly. What would be more embarrassing is if the Flames were to choose not to take advantage of the flexibility his current contract affords.

[Huntingwhale]

Originally Posted by Samonadreau

For as much as Goalies are voodoo, Wolf has done everything at every single level. Tough not to get your hopes up.

2x WHL Goalie of the Year
1x CHL Goalie of the Year
2x AHL Goalie of the Year
1x AHL MVP
and whatever this player excellence award is

This kid is special

I swear to god if this kid doesn't pan out, I will attend church every sunday and ####ing riot in the stands until God Jesus himself comes down from the cross and answers as to why he did not allow the hockey gods to do us this solid. Literally nothing else this kid can accomplish without becoming a star. Goalies are voodoos yes...but at some point it gets to be f'ing ridiculous if this kid does not pan out.

Originally Posted by dobbles

If they send Wolf down simply because they can, it will be an embarrassment for the franchise. There is nothing left for Wolf to do in the AHL. You guys have to find a way to get rid of Vladar and avoid the goalie mess.

I swear to god even more, if the Flames find a way to #### this up, there better be full on riots at the saddledome and new arena nightly until someone's head rolls off the steps and onto the sidewalks.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by liamenator

Wolf starting 10 fewer NHL games in his rookie season and getting a little bit of extra seasoning in the AHL is a reasonable price to pay in order to manage the assets properly. What would be more embarrassing is if the Flames were to choose not to take advantage of the flexibility his current contract affords.

Huh? This isn't about roster flexibility. This is about ensuring your potential franchise goaltender (yes, I use that term as this kid is potentially a franchise goaltender) has the opportunity to continue to grow and also allows you to take advantage of a much cheaper back up that is likely already better than Vladar.

Opting to keep a goaltender like Vladar (who at best is a 1B tandem type goalie and at worst a low end backup that we saw last year) around at the expense of Wolf actually moving up and starting 25-30 games in the NHL this season would be a farce.

The message it sends to the Wolf himself and the rest of the prospect pool is also that it really doesn't matter how you perform in the AHL at all and contradicts everything Conroy said when he was hired about ensuring the top prospects have spaces to fight for. Hasn't Wolf already kicked the doors down?

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Huh? This isn't about roster flexibility. This is about ensuring your potential franchise goaltender (yes, I use that term as this kid is potentially a franchise goaltender) has the opportunity to continue to grow and also allows you to take advantage of a much cheaper back up that is likely already better than Vladar.

Opting to keep a goaltender like Vladar (who at best is a 1B tandem type goalie and at worst a low end backup that we saw last year) around at the expense of Wolf actually moving up and starting 25-30 games in the NHL this season would be a farce.

The message it sends to the Wolf himself and the rest of the prospect pool is also that it really doesn't matter how you perform in the AHL at all and contradicts everything Conroy said when he was hired about ensuring the top prospects have spaces to fight for. Hasn't Wolf already kicked the doors down?

I don't think anyone expects Wolf to stay in the AHL all year. But him staying down there for a month while you wait for a market to one of the other goalies to develop is fine. Its not going to end Wolf's development if he spends a month in the AHL.

I already pointed out that Nashville sent Saros down to the AHL after he played 20 games in the NHL with a save percentage over 920 because he wasn't getting ice time. He survived. https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...php?pid=161740

[Bingo]

I will agree that this can't go on forever ... and if it's an issue next summer its likely creating chaos.

I don't see a start to the season with Wolf going back and forth as anything other than a logical step in his development.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Huh? This isn't about roster flexibility. This is about ensuring your potential franchise goaltender (yes, I use that term as this kid is potentially a franchise goaltender) has the opportunity to continue to grow and also allows you to take advantage of a much cheaper back up that is likely already better than Vladar.

Opting to keep a goaltender like Vladar (who at best is a 1B tandem type goalie and at worst a low end backup that we saw last year) around at the expense of Wolf actually moving up and starting 25-30 games in the NHL this season would be a farce.

The message it sends to the Wolf himself and the rest of the prospect pool is also that it really doesn't matter how you perform in the AHL at all and contradicts everything Conroy said when he was hired about ensuring the top prospects have spaces to fight for. Hasn't Wolf already kicked the doors down?

But if you trade away the back up and make Wolf full time back up and he doesn't steal the net from Markstrom? Now you've got your star prospect playing 20-25 games the entire season because you can't send him down now that you've made him a permanent NHL goalie.

This is asinine. We have free, wonderful flexibility right now to do whatever we want with Wolf this season, and both teams play in the same arena. It's a dream scenario for easing Wolf into the big club and people are mad about it?

[getbak]

Wolf will likely start 20-25 NHL games this season either way.

The difference is what he'll be doing the other 60ish games of the season. He can either be sitting on the bench in the NHL, or he can be starting another 20 or so games in the AHL.