[Trade] NSH trades Jeannot to TB for Cal Foote, 2025 1st, 2024 2nd, 2023 3rd, 4th, 5th

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The Flames need to be drafting and signing western Canadians, who have family within the region. Not Coronatos and building a team around all the Americans, who don’t want to be in Calgary and if push comes to shove won’t be. There is a reasonably high chance Coranato doesn’t sign here… how bad will that look? Time to shift to western Canadian kids who have some semblance of Calgary and what it’s about.

Furthermore, I’m not really interested in cheering for exclusively mercenaries anyway.

They do sign or trade for their fair share of western Canadians. But they often have not worked out well talent wise in recent years. Setoguchi, Foo, Colborne, Shinkaruk, Raymond, Gawdin, Klimchuk, Gagliardi, Wotherspoon.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The Oilers lol and people thanked this?

4 lottery wins including McDavid...so shrewd

They made the conference finals beating the Kings without Doughty and the Flames with a shooter tutor in net and then got swept wow.

YOUR example was Tampa which is one of the easiest markets to run a team in the league. BT would clean up in a market like that IMO.

The post literally said Oilers were one of the 4 teams that did NOT figure it out - grouped with Arizona , Flames , and Buffalo! I guess you didn’t read the post , saw Oilers and someone criticing you beloved Flames and immediately jumped on the “hahah Oilers suck” defense.

The point is they do suck - however had more success then the Flames. Luck or not . Even the suckiest of the sucks are more successful then us ! (And locked up Drais to a “overpay” at the time that had a lot of fans laughing at them Vs losing him like we did with MT)

Yes BT the great would clean up in another market . It’s just the Flames holding him back , not the other way around. He is the greatest GM to ever head the Flames, it’s just players hate us , refs hate us , all his great acquisitions (on paper) don’t turn out , and every other excuse you constantly come up with for this team.

He may even win 2 playoff rounds every 5 years playing in a better market !

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The Flames need to be drafting and signing western Canadians, who have family within the region. Not Coronatos and building a team around all the Americans, who don’t want to be in Calgary and if push comes to shove won’t be. There is a reasonably high chance Coranato doesn’t sign here… how bad will that look? Time to shift to western Canadian kids who have some semblance of Calgary and what it’s about.

Furthermore, I’m not really interested in cheering for exclusively mercenaries anyway.

Nope. You take the best player available. People need to stop being afraid that somebody might not sign or might leave after being here for 9 years like Gaudreau.

Gaudreau is still the Flames best pick of the last 2 decades. Tkachuk the second best pick.

If they use your theory then they would have picked Tyson Jost at 6 instead of Tkachuk, a good Alberta boy!

Even Adam Fox who refused to sign here brought the Flames back more value than the average 3rd, and a lot more than the next western canadian kid taken (whoever this is https://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/...php?pid=171875)

Now when there is a great local talent on the board that is the best player available they should take him (Brayden Point), or even just give a local kid in the organization that leads the farm team in scoring for three seasons more than 10 minutes to prove himself (Phillips)

[devo22]

Tom Erixon refused to sign for us. Should we have stopped drafting/signing/trading for Swedes because of that?

And we really don't have any reason to believe that Coronato is going to burn us.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Contract lengths need to be looked at in the next CBA. 7/8 is way to long to have guys signed.

4/5 should be maximum.

These massive long term deals handcuff teams from proper roster building or having the opportunity to retool teams when it's not working out.

Just look at Lucic he's played 3 more years than he should and his contract allows zero ability to buy it out or trade him.

That 5.5 million in cap space would be huge. You probably also see star player salaries rise like they have been crying about especially Walsh.

Other leagues have caps and ability to cut a player loose.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Contract lengths need to be looked at in the next CBA. 7/8 is way to long to have guys signed.

4/5 should be maximum.

These massive long term deals handcuff teams from proper roster building or having the opportunity to retool teams when it's not working out.

Just look at Lucic he's played 3 more years than he should and his contract allows zero ability to buy it out or trade him.

That 5.5 million in cap space would be huge. You probably also see star player salaries rise like they have been crying about especially Walsh.

Other leagues have caps and ability to cut a player loose.

7/8 years is great especially for Canadian teams. What you are discussing is GM problem as everyone knew the Lucic deal was bad, the day it was announced. There were several bad contract handed out that particular summer that everyone knew would age poorly. The GM's likely all knew that as well but were willing to mortgage the future in for immediate success. The funny thing is that none of those teams had any immediate or long term success with any of those contracts as Ladd, Lucic, Okposo, Eriksson, Brouwer, etc all busted nearly immediately. That clearly shows that a lot of NHL GM's are simply not very good at their jobs rather than a systemic issue with long term contract.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

7/8 years is great especially for Canadian teams. What you are discussing is GM problem as everyone knew the Lucic deal was bad, the day it was announced. There were several bad contract handed out that particular summer that everyone knew would age poorly. The GM's likely all knew that as well but were willing to mortgage the future in for immediate success. The funny thing is that none of those teams had any immediate or long term success with any of those contracts as Ladd, Lucic, Okposo, Eriksson, Brouwer, etc all busted nearly immediately. That clearly shows that a lot of NHL GM's are simply not very good at their jobs rather than a systemic issue with long term contract.

Funny part is those are all terrible deals including Troy and his was the best deal and easiest to escape from because it was a 4 year deal.

The issue is we compounded that by signing Neal which turned into Lucic who is still unfortunately on the team.

Shorter terms will lead to more player movement.

Do you think Johnny would have stayed if we offered a 3-4 year deal as opposed to asking to commit to a 8 year deal?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Contract lengths need to be looked at in the next CBA. 7/8 is way to long to have guys signed.

4/5 should be maximum.

These massive long term deals handcuff teams from proper roster building or having the opportunity to retool teams when it's not working out.

Just look at Lucic he's played 3 more years than he should and his contract allows zero ability to buy it out or trade him.

That 5.5 million in cap space would be huge. You probably also see star player salaries rise like they have been crying about especially Walsh.

Other leagues have caps and ability to cut a player loose.

Then why do fans cry when Treliving signs Gaudreau for "only" 6 years.

I agree aging players shouldn't get 7-8 years. But all GMs have to do is not sign those guys.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Then why do fans cry when Treliving signs Gaudreau for "only" 6 years.

I agree aging players shouldn't get 7-8 years. But all GMs have to do is not sign those guys.

Yeah but the history of the league and pro sports shows GM's and owners cannot control themselves when it comes to these deals. That's why the CBA needs mechanisms to stop it like in the NBA and NFL.

I did not do any crying at the deal Treliving signed, we actually got great value from it along with the Tkachuck deal.

Even if he was signed to a 8 year deal he could have simply asked for a trade as well.

Personally think Treliving is a top gm and yeah he has made mistakes, but his free agent contracts the worst so far looks to be Kadri because he has kept the length short. Markstom looks bad now but we got value out of it the previous season I don't think anyone saw him putting up Jonas HIller numbers.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Yeah but the history of the league and pro sports shows GM's and owners cannot control themselves when it comes to these deals. That's why the CBA needs mechanisms to stop it like in the NBA and NFL.

I did not do any crying at the deal Treliving signed, we actually got great value from it along with the Tkachuck deal.

Even if he was signed to a 8 year deal he could have simply asked for a trade as well.

Personally think Treliving is a top gm and yeah he has made mistakes, but his free agent contracts the worst so far looks to be Kadri because he has kept the length short. Markstom looks bad now but we got value out of it the previous season I don't think anyone saw him putting up Jonas HIller numbers.

I think you have to throw in extensions as well as UFAs, so Huberdeau's is looking pretty darned risky. Though I think there it was 8 or nothing, which also would have been heavily criticized.

[GioforPM]

Fun looking at drafts if Calgary had picked the next best player, but western. The only one in the last 10 years that would have worked out better was Morrisey over Monahan in 2013 and that's only because Monahan got hurt.

Imagine taking Virtanen or Hayden Fleury over Bennett, or Jost (or Bean) over Tkachuk.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I think you have to throw in extensions as well as UFAs, so Huberdeau's is looking pretty darned risky. Though I think there it was 8 or nothing, which also would have been heavily criticized.

It was also a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Play out the season he tears it up and bolts everyone says hes the worst GM. Sign him to what the market tells you and its a bad deal.

How many people sat on edge waiting for Weegar to sign. Not people want to trade him.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

It was also a damned if you do and damned if you don't situation. Play out the season he tears it up and bolts everyone says hes the worst GM. Sign him to what the market tells you and its a bad deal.

How many people sat on edge waiting for Weegar to sign. Not people want to trade him.

Oh, I for sure distinctly remember people saying it was a failed trade unless Treliving got a deal with H (and probably some said it had to be max).

[devo22]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1630621602843967496


it'll be interesting to see where they are in a few years. Wheeler had their prospect pool at 31 already and they've mortgaged even more of their future in a time where the East is an absolute bloodbath ... for Tanner Jeannot. Still can't wrap my head around this.

[GioforPM]

TB wins the cup in 04. Then having won and struggling right afterwards, they decide to suck for a few years. Draft high and get Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov, Vasilevsky between 08-12 (also Drouin at 3 in 2012 but he was a miss), as well as some good lower picks like Palat, Gudas. Start to be good in 2014 by riding those guys, hiring Cooper, drafting well in later rounds: Point, Cirelli. Get back to the top and decided they'd hang around longer by filling in depth with trades each year. Coleman, Paul, Savard. I'm betting they figure to suck but are willing to have a longer period in the wilderness in exchange for another cup or two. Kucherov, Stamkos and Hedman are 29-31. That gives them 3-4 years maybe.

I bet they figure they can recoup picks when they trend down by selling off their present stars.

[Flamesfan05]

Originally Posted by devo22

Tom Erixon refused to sign for us. Should we have stopped drafting/signing/trading for Swedes because of that?

And we really don't have any reason to believe that Coronato is going to burn us.

Lol i don’t think we drafted any good Swedes from Europe since

[devo22]

Rasmus Andersson and Oliver Kylington say hi. But that's beside the point, you don't decide to stay away from players from a specific country just because one prospect refused to sign with you.

[bigrangy]

Originally Posted by devo22

Rasmus Andersson and Oliver Kylington say hi. But that's beside the point, you don't decide to stay away from players from a specific country just because one prospect refused to sign with you.

Andersson was drafted out of the OHL. Kylington is the only euro playing in Europe in their draft year that the Flames have actually developed since Lydman in 1996.

The Flames drafted about 30 Euros in Europe since 1996 and have hit on Kylington and pushed on Granlund and Ortio. Euro scouting has been baaaaaaad.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Flamesfan05

Lol i don’t think we drafted any good Swedes from Europe since

Havent drafted any good Western Canadians outside of Dube either, and didn't have a shot to.