Can we talk about the cap?

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Why in the world do people continually insist upon trying to trade Noah Hanifin? Absolutely puzzling.

He's a quality top pairing defensemen on a sweetheart deal. It would be awesome to keep him a Flame for the foreseeable future. In a perfect world that would be the ideal thing to do.

However, the only way this team has the cap room to re-sign the big 4 upcoming FAs (Johnny, Chucky, Eatbread, Kylly) is to clear up a ton of cap room. That can only be done via trades or letting FAs walk. If we agree that we want to keep these 4 guys, then difficult decisions inevitably have to be made elsewhere.

Noah's trade value is extremely high right now. Given the cap crunch the team is in, it may make sense to leverage that trade value to clear out bad contracts and move out underperforming players, while also bringing in valuable assets. If not at this deadline, then in the offseason.

Which idea is more "brutal"? Move Hanafin and get a lot of things done at once, setting the team up for success in the coming years? Or letting a number of FAs walk for nothing and still be stuck with Monahan/Lucic contracts on the books?

[cam_wmh]

Zadorov is really only going to be paid ~$2m above replacement at that spot. Not alot when Winter is saying top 5 player in the league; that's Gaudreau/Tkachuk money.

To me it's pick two of 13/19/88, otherwise we're too top heavy, financially.

[Enoch Root]

well, if you think he's going to be a top 5 player in the league, that's the guy you sign

[cam_wmh]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

well, if you think he's going to be a top 5 player in the league, that's the guy you sign

I don't. You do?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

I don't. You do?

no, I don't either

but nor do I think he will be paid like it

[SaskyFlamesFan]

I think Zadorov is gone, hopefully qualified and traded, could like recoup the asset it cost to get him. Conroy sounds pretty optimistic about Mackey so he is probably #5 next year. #6 is probably a cheap vet unless Gudbranson accepts a couple years for around the same dough. Valimaki might spend another year in the minors, would give him two years in the A to figure things out after missing so much time. The savings is going to be needed to pay Kylington and then some for the forwards. I think Kylington gets a short deal to see if this continues or if it is a career season for him.

Could see Mangiapane being traded if his ask is too high or signed to a 3 year deal, which would cost less than 8. Puts him to FA but could deal with that then. I think Gaudreau and Tkachuk get signed. Then they will deal with fallout after that.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

He's a quality top pairing defensemen on a sweetheart deal. It would be awesome to keep him a Flame for the foreseeable future. In a perfect world that would be the ideal thing to do.

However, the only way this team has the cap room to re-sign the big 4 upcoming FAs (Johnny, Chucky, Eatbread, Kylly) is to clear up a ton of cap room. That can only be done via trades or letting FAs walk. If we agree that we want to keep these 4 guys, then difficult decisions inevitably have to be made elsewhere.

Noah's trade value is extremely high right now. Given the cap crunch the team is in, it may make sense to leverage that trade value to clear out bad contracts and move out underperforming players, while also bringing in valuable assets. If not at this deadline, then in the offseason.

Which idea is more "brutal"? Move Hanafin and get a lot of things done at once, setting the team up for success in the coming years? Or letting a number of FAs walk for nothing and still be stuck with Monahan/Lucic contracts on the books?

If flames can sign Johnny and Tkachuk , eatbread is all but gone. I think trading for toffoli was also an insurance if we lose/trade eatbread . Toffoli is a top 6 player playing on the third line. That won’t be happening next next year . Flames can’t pay for all the top 6 wingers coming up. Remember we also need to have money to re-sign our number one center in a couple years. I personally think eatbread is all but gone unless Johnny walks or Flames know for certain that Tkachuk will walk in another years time:

[Mathgod]

Just my 2c... trading or not re-signing Eatbread would be a massive mistake that could come back to haunt this team in a big way.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Just my 2c... trading or not re-signing Eatbread would be a massive mistake that could come back to haunt this team in a big way.

Flames top priority has to be re signing the entire top line . Eatbread a agent has already said that he is advising his client to accept a 1 year deal so he can be a ufa in a years time. I highly doubt flames will get him under contract for anything less than 5 years and a big cap hit. Just can’t see where all that money would be coming from especially for all wingers.

[Enoch Root]

Moving Dube to C next year allows the team to move on from Monahan - obviously requiring a willing recipient.

Then if you can move Lucic, it becomes possible to sign at least the big 4, and maybe one of the big defensemen as well.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by Mathgod

Just my 2c... trading or not re-signing Eatbread would be a massive mistake that could come back to haunt this team in a big way.

So of the 3 forwards due for extensions, which would you let go if you could only keep two?

[Fire]

Originally Posted by SaskyFlamesFan

I think Zadorov is gone, hopefully qualified and traded, could like recoup the asset it cost to get him. Conroy sounds pretty optimistic about Mackey so he is probably #5 next year. #6 is probably a cheap vet unless Gudbranson accepts a couple years for around the same dough. Valimaki might spend another year in the minors, would give him two years in the A to figure things out after missing so much time. The savings is going to be needed to pay Kylington and then some for the forwards. I think Kylington gets a short deal to see if this continues or if it is a career season for him.

Could see Mangiapane being traded if his ask is too high or signed to a 3 year deal, which would cost less than 8. Puts him to FA but could deal with that then. I think Gaudreau and Tkachuk get signed. Then they will deal with fallout after that.

Zadorov is a UFA in the off-season, can't qualify him. Less than 25% chance he will be back but I can see Gudbransson signing a 3-year deal for around what he is currently making. I know people are predicting a big raise for him but the cap will be near flat for a while it will be hard for him to get. One thing I am certain of is that the Flames are not going to go from having two physical defenseman on their 3rd pairing to none. Not on a Sutter team.

[calculoso]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Zadorov; 5 yrs x $4.5m

The choice between Zadorov and a top defenceman in Hanifin for 450k is a no brainer - Hanifin every time.

[SaskyFlamesFan]

Originally Posted by Fire

Zadorov is a UFA in the off-season, can't qualify him. Less than 25% chance he will be back but I can see Gudbransson signing a 3-year deal for around what he is currently making. I know people are predicting a big raise for him but the cap will be near flat for a while it will be hard for him to get. One thing I am certain of is that the Flames are not going to go from having two physical defenseman on their 3rd pairing to none. Not on a Sutter team.

Thanks, didn’t realize he was a ufa. He is definitely gone then.

[Freddy]

If I have to pick 2 of 13,19,88 going forward I’d try to trade Tkachuk’s rights for something in the off season and move on. Both Gaudreau and Mangiapane are play drivers, I think it’s easier to find value opportunists.

[Mathgod]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

Flames top priority has to be re signing the entire top line . Eatbread a agent has already said that he is advising his client to accept a 1 year deal so he can be a ufa in a years time. I highly doubt flames will get him under contract for anything less than 5 years and a big cap hit. Just can’t see where all that money would be coming from especially for all wingers.

Outside of the top line he's been this team's only consistent threat up front. On pace for 44 goals and he's not even playing with an elite centre. His 5-on-5 goals/60 is third highest in the NHL.

Trade Eatbread and suddenly this is a one-line team.

Originally Posted by djsFlames

So of the 3 forwards due for extensions, which would you let go if you could only keep two?

You move heaven & earth to keep all three.

If you absolutely must move one, you see what you can get for Chucky.

[MrMike]

It’s a flow chart that’s pretty simple. You start with Gaudreau and if you sign him, next is Tkachuk. If you sign him then move onto Mangiapane.

If Tre can work magic and dump off Monahan and Lucic, there will be no issue. If you have to send out an asset or two to make those trades happen you do it so you can keep all 3 of those players.

If one of the big two won’t/don’t sign than it makes the flow chart much easier.
Use Gaudreau cap space/ Trade Tkachuk for assets, sign Mangiapane.

I’m not worried about the salary as much as Gaudreau and Tkachuk signing long term.
At least with all the success under Sutter that has to be a pro of resigning here I would imagine.

[Jay Random]

Originally Posted by MrMike

It’s a flow chart that’s pretty simple. You start with Gaudreau and if you sign him, next is Tkachuk. If you sign him then move onto Mangiapane.

Precisely. And if it takes $10 million or more to sign Gaudreau, and Tkachuk then demands a still bigger figure, you have to trade Tkachuk for the best assets you can get. At present he's the highest-paid player on the team, but he is not the most valuable and can't be paid that way on a long-term deal.

Of course I would like to see all the team's key players re-signed, but each one of them has a choice in the matter.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by cam_wmh

Some big decisions in the off-season.

I'm a huge fan of our Zadorov & Gudbranson pairing, and want to bring them back along with the big 2.

This will be at the expense of Mangiapane, Lucic & Hanifin. Two of whom are very valuable assets, that Treliving can leverage in a deal to help liquidate Lucic. And/Or use the assets attained from Mangiapane & Hanifin, to help move Lucic.

Not to be a jerk...but...you are deconstrucing the team when it simply isnt necessary.

IMO there is NO chance this team jettisons Hanifin so they can keep Gudbranson and Zadorov.

Ever.

My guess is they might keep one of them....but not both....and certainly not at the suggested cost.


Yikes.

[cam_wmh]

Lets see some actual constructive criticism, how would you put the team together?

I don't disagree it's a step back in skill between Hanifin and Zadorov, but seeng his physicality and seeing those minutes made up with a marginal step back as a group, that in turn garners us some material assets. Assets, that may allow us to move both Monahan AND Lucic, so as to re-sign those big3.