[PGT] Blues 3 - Flames 1

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

If we deserved to lose regardless of Smith’s play what’s all the complaining about then?

because this isn't the first time he has played poorly...some of us see where this is headed if Smith keeps getting starts

the Flames really don't have much of a cushion over the middling teams in the league. Few more bad games goal tending or otherwise and our great start, elite team is just another ####ing bubble team in the mix.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

God, I AM NOT DEFENDING MIKE SMITH! Just stop it.

Don’t buy it. I think you’re full of it.

There have been several goalies waived this season who may or may not have been an upgrade. You decried every single one, called out numerous posters, and pointed your virtual finger at anyone who disagreed with you. You have been the most vocal poster, far and away, on this site for the “you are speculating, you don’t know” point of reasoning.

And yet, you have continually cited an appeal to authority when these goalies have cleared. Should we just accept that the Flames should have to fight against their backup EVERY SINGLE TIME HE PLAYS and that nothing better HAS EVER BEEN available?

Mike Smith sucks. Can you please just admit this in simple language?

[dino7c]

There have been multiple waiver goalies this season that are better than Smith

[chummer]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Don’t buy it. I think you’re full of it.

There have been several goalies waived this season who may or may not have been an upgrade. You decried every single one, called out numerous posters, and pointed your virtual finger at anyone who disagreed with you. You have been the most vocal poster, far and away, on this site for the “you are speculating, you don’t know” point of reasoning.

And yet, you have continually cited an appeal to authority when these goalies have cleared. Should we just accept that the Flames should have to fight against their backup EVERY SINGLE TIME HE PLAYS and that nothing better HAS EVER BEEN available?

Mike Smith sucks. Can you please just admit this in simple language?

Jesus man, read his posts again. Username checks out.

[Gaskal]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I think the number of games Mike Smith plays also helps to ensure that Rittich keeps winning. We can't say for sure if things would be different had Rittich played 30 games up to this point, but given that the coaches seem reluctant to play him more suggests that this is certainly a factor.

And a backup is there to do more than let the starter have a night off. He needs to perform himself too, and Smith is not.

Leaned on to be a starter? Hiller impersonation.
Leaned on as a bit of a 1b? Did ok at points, then fell flat just as everyone got their hopes up.
Leaned on to be relief to BSD? Well.... outlook not good so far.

He's started 21 games this year.

9 of them have been great games. 12 have been Hiller level.

So odds are slightly worse than a coin flip of getting a good game out of him at this point, regardless of his workload. That's really something!

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

I’m as mad as anyone that we lost but the flames only scored one goal. And I don’t blame Smith for all three against.

Maybe the game is different if he doesn’t let in that early softy but the flames came out flat anyways.

The whole team played like they had christmas dinner early in the day and were overloaded on Tryptophan and Baileys.


Mike Smith let in bad goals, but the offense was really not good, and the defense looked lazy at times.


0-2-1 is not a good way to go into the Christmas break,

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Don’t buy it. I think you’re full of it.

There have been several goalies waived this season who may or may not have been an upgrade. You decried every single one, called out numerous posters, and pointed your virtual finger at anyone who disagreed with you. You have been the most vocal poster, far and away, on this site for the “you are speculating, you don’t know” point of reasoning.

Yes. I have continued to insist that trading for or acquiring a poor NHL goalie does not do anything to help the Flames. Again, that is completely different from defending Mike Smith.

And yet, you have continually cited an appeal to authority when these goalies have cleared. Should we just accept that the Flames should have to fight against their backup EVERY SINGLE TIME HE PLAYS and that nothing better HAS EVER BEEN available?

This has pretty much been my position all along. As I asked a poster above, why do you think the Flames have not yet traded for another goalie?

Mike Smith sucks. Can you please just admit this in suple language?

You can find posts of mine in this thread in which I have said that Mike Smith is having a poor season, and had a bad game. Feel free to look them up.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

You think he is better? I seriously doubt it.

Absolutely would be.

You are going to back Smith no matter what so why even bother trying to discuss it with you?

[memphusk]

Why did Peter's bother giving him the start if they were going into the break anyways?

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

But he is NOT ON A BAD TEAM. This makes a huge difference.


Mike Smith's play is not much worse than Jusse Saros's, nor Phoenix Copley's. It just does not seem important enough to make a change at any cost right now.

You're arguing against something nobody is saying.

Smith has been in the very bottom of goalies by stats. An average quality backup probably only costs a third round pick, and would be a big upgrade.

Nobody is saying trade the first plus valimaki for a starter, just trade a replacement level player or low pick for a replacement level goalie. Given we are getting below replacement level tending from Smith, that would be a big upgrade at a very important position.

Because you're right that Rittich can't play the rest of the games. And we can't afford to lose the 6-8 standings points that Mike Smith softies are likely to cost us.

[dino7c]

This is the NHL...when a 36 year old has a poor season he is likely not in the NHL the next year

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Gaskal

And a backup is there to do more than let the starter have a night off. He needs to perform himself too, and Smith is not.

Leaned on to be a starter? Hiller impersonation.
Leaned on as a bit of a 1b? Did ok at points, then fell flat just as everyone got their hopes up.
Leaned on to be relief to BSD? Well.... outlook not good so far.

He's started 21 games this year.

9 of them have been great games. 12 have been Hiller level.

So odds are slightly worse than a coin flip of getting a good game out of him at this point, regardless of his workload. That's really something!

Yeah, it's not great—but given how well the team has played it is also far from terrible. Like I said—I would worry about how well Rittich performs played 3/4 games for an extending period of time just yet. I think he is getting there, but also prefer to be patient.

[Split98]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

I beg to differ. With how often goalies are traded in-season I think these are some of the most difficult changes to make for a team.

I'm sorry, but I don't agree at all that changing the backup alters the team all that much. You just don't normally see a back-up with this much rope and the press that follows it

Originally Posted by Textcritic

For those who are certain that an upgrade in goal is urgent and easily attainable, then you also must think that Flames management is either unable to see something that is patently obvious, or they are intentionally ignoring it.

Look at literally the entire NHL. Theres tons of options well above Smith that could be had for pretty damn cheap.

The point is, a back-up better than Smith isn't going to cost a whole lot or impact the team all that much.

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Why do you think the Flames have not yet traded for another goalie?

I think that's what a lot of us are wondering

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by dino7c

This is the NHL...when a 36 year old has a poor season he is likely not in the NHL the next year

I have no doubt about that.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Split98

...I think that's what a lot of us are wondering

So, what do you think is happening?

Do you think that Flames management is either unable to see something that is patently obvious, or are they intentionally ignoring it?

I think making a change is proving to be fairly difficult.

[mrdonkey]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Do you think that Flames management is either unable to see something that is patently obvious, or they are intentionally ignoring it?

Yes. It has happened before and will happen again.

Is management absolutely above reproach?

[Dion]

I click on this thread and I see everyone is ganging up on Textcritic. I'm no fan of Smith but I happen to agree with a lot of what TC is saying.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by mrdonkey

Yes. It has happened before and will happen again.

Is management absolutely above reproach?

When has it happened before? Brad Treliving is one of the most proactive GMs in the entire League.

I don't think management is above reproach, but I see nothing from this group that suggests they would ever be reluctant to make necessary changes if they could. It seems very unlikely to me that Treliving is just passing over readily available upgrades. I think more often than not fans have virtually no idea about how hard it is to make NHL trades—even seemingly easy ones like for a new NHL backup goalie.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Karl

Winning mostly in spite of Smith, and you know it.

Which a repeat of my point, yes. We’re winning in spite of his poor play, but he’s “costing us so much”?

My thoughts: nah, not really. We’re doing just fine despite Smith being bad. Some might even say great.

Call me crazy for not panicking over Smith being on the roster when we’re one of the best teams in the league anyway. Too much to feel good about to worry about the backup goaltender.

[dissentowner]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Which a repeat of my point, yes. We’re winning in spite of his poor play, but he’s “costing us so much”?

My thoughts: nah, not really. We’re doing just fine despite Smith being bad. Some might even say great.

Call me crazy for not panicking over Smith being on the roster when we’re one of the best teams in the league anyway. Too much to feel good about to worry about the backup goaltender.

The problem is we don't have a backup goaltender as it is becoming clear that the mandate is to run two goalies this year. That is a lot of points to be pissed away if one of those goalies is Mike Smith.