[News] Flames recall Mangiapane. Frolik on IR

[Sutter_in_law]

Originally Posted by Eric Vail

Better than Cliff Fletcher? Really? Are you old enough to remember his drafting history and most of those trades? Don't forget the President's Trophies and the Stanley Cup.

How could Treliving be mentioned in the same breath?

Yes I am. And I clarified it earlier in that I think Fletcher's job was easier in that era to do what he did. Fletcher was a great GM, but I think Treliving has done more with less (not necessarily more overall obviously)

Then again, maybe I'm still just mad about how bad he fleeced us for Gilmour right after leaving cgy.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Sutter_in_law

Yes I am. And I clarified it earlier in that I think Fletcher's job was easier in that era to do what he did. Fletcher was a great GM, but I think Treliving has done more with less (not necessarily more overall obviously)

The last again, maybe I'm still just mad about how bad he fleeced us for Gilmour right after leaving cgy.

This reminds me of all the “It was easier for Gretzky to score all those points back in that era” posts what talking about greats of all time.

[Plaedo]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Flames went 26-16-2 last year for a. 614 over their last 44 games when they were one of the hottest teams in the NHL. Flames had an easier schedule over the last 44 last year, but I suppose this team with this coach could possibly get to. 625 over their last 44. If they lose tonight they have to go .640 over their last 43. They are getting close to being more or less logically mathematically eliminated.

But I do appreciate the sentiment that there is nothing to see here, BT built a good team (best GM in Flames history according to some), GG is a good coach with Babcock like systems, but the basic math (which no amount of spin can deny) is quickly building a bulwark against their playoff aspirations.

I don't think you think this means what it actually means...
They would need to be approaching the required mark of 1.00 over the last 43 games to be getting close to being mathematically eliminated. Logically eliminated? Sure... I suppose one could skew that angle. Mathematically eliminated? Nope.

[gunnner]

Originally Posted by Yoho

This reminds me of all the “It was easier for Gretzky to score all those points back in that era” posts what talking about greats of all time.

It was easier for Gretzky to score all those points back in that era. 1980's goaltending, last nights game was 12-7 Flames/

[Sutter_in_law]

Originally Posted by Yoho

This reminds me of all the “It was easier for Gretzky to score all those points back in that era” posts what talking about greats of all time.

It was easier, far easier - go watch some highlights from that era.
You seriously think that the games defensive systems and goalies level of play back then are comparable to now?

[Samonadreau]

Ya in the 80's Crosby has a couple near 200 point seasons and Ovi has a couple 82 goal seasons

Gretzky would still be leader in points but not by a thousand.

[Samonadreau]

Hope to see Eat bread get more top 9 minutes with Frolik out for while.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Sutter_in_law

Yes I am. And I clarified it earlier in that I think Fletcher's job was easier in that era to do what he did. Fletcher was a great GM, but I think Treliving has done more with less (not necessarily more overall obviously)

Then again, maybe I'm still just mad about how bad he fleeced us for Gilmour right after leaving cgy.

How was it easier back then? GMs have far more resources now then they did in 80s. From extra scouts scouting every corner of the earth to internet resources to extra staff to minor leaguers available on the fly basically all GMs playing with same amount of money it is not harder now.

Scoring was easier but being a GM cannot be harder seeing how they have so many more available resources.

For the record Treiliving hasn't accomplished anything. Flames are not even a honorable mention when it comes to Stanley Cup Contenders.

[FlamesFanTrev]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

How was it easier back then? GMs have far more resources now then they did in 80s. From extra scouts scouting every corner of the earth to internet resources to extra staff to minor leaguers available on the fly basically all GMs playing with same amount of money it is not harder now.

Scoring was easier but being a GM cannot be harder seeing how they have so many more available resources.

For the record Treiliving hasn't accomplished anything. Flames are not even a honorable mention when it comes to Stanley Cup Contenders.

All of your competition has the same resources these days. Being a GM in the cap era is more difficult because the playing field is more level.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Sutter_in_law

Treliving was the best GM the Flames have had (and even if you think he's not, there's no denying that he's a very close second)

There sure as **** is. He has a cushy situation with Feaster setting him up with a ton of talent + oodles of cap space and ownership willing to pay to the cap ceiling, Tod Button continuing what he's done over the last decade across four different GMs, and Tre hasn't done **** with it that Al Coates or Darryl Sutter could not have done - and both those guys walked into ****-show situations unlike Tre. And Feaster, regardless of what people thought of his intelligence or what he "almost" did, put this team in a situation to be four-ish years away from a cup run as he didn't (ACTUALLY) make any crippling signings or terrible draft picks.

So really, Treliving can only really say he's in the mix with Coates, Feaster, and Sutter for one of the four guys in the next tier of Flames GM. Which is a far cry from bolded statement in quote.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanTrev

All of your competition has the same resources these days. Being a GM in the cap era is more difficult because the playing field is more level.

So an even playing field is more difficult? That probably makes it easier, you don't have teams like the Rangers etc trying to outbid teams like Calgary with ridiculous contracts. Teams like Rangers have to stay within the cap.

[Classic_Sniper]

What a breath of fresh air Mangiapane was last night. He looked more energetic and effective than any other 4th liner this season. Stajan and Brouwer looked significantly better with him on that line. I’m convinced now more than ever that the Stockton boys would make better NHLers right now than Hamilton, Lazar, Stajan and Brouwer.

I think it’s time to bring up Hrivik and Klimchuk to see what they can do at this level. Rittich, Jankowski, Hathaway, Kulak have all blown away my expectations and Mangiapane looks posied to do the same. I think this could be the moves we’ve been looking for and I think the injection of youth and energy is exactly what this team needs going forward ala 2014-15 when the young kids helped carry this team to a playoff berth.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by Da_Chief

So an even playing field is more difficult? That probably makes it easier, you don't have teams like the Rangers etc trying to outbid teams like Calgary with ridiculous contracts. Teams like Rangers have to stay within the cap.

This exactly. The big markets always had very high salary rolls compared to other teams.

[Sutter_in_law]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

There sure as **** is. He has a cushy situation with Feaster setting him up with a ton of talent + oodles of cap space and ownership willing to pay to the cap ceiling, Tod Button continuing what he's done over the last decade across four different GMs, and Tre hasn't done **** with it that Al Coates or Darryl Sutter could not have done - and both those guys walked into ****-show situations unlike Tre. And Feaster, regardless of what people thought of his intelligence or what he "almost" did, put this team in a situation to be four-ish years away from a cup run as he didn't (ACTUALLY) make any crippling signings or terrible draft picks.

So really, Treliving can only really say he's in the mix with Coates, Feaster, and Sutter for one of the four guys in the next tier of Flames GM. Which is a far cry from bolded statement in quote.

For the record I defended Feaster over the ROR "debacle" and he was smart in that he trusted his scouting staff and thus drafted very well - but other than that he made awful trades and signings, Sutter made some good moves (Kipper being the best hands down) but made lots of terrible short-sighted moves as well (Phaneuf trade) and his drafting record is pretty abysmal. Coates drafted terribly but deserves credit for making a huge gamble in trading Nieuwendyk for Iggy.

Maybe Treliving hasn't done **** yet in your opinion, but in mine he is setting this club up for stability and success for years to come - that's why I have the opinion I do of him. Maybe I shouldn't have said "there is no denying" it when I was talking about an opinion though, that's my bad.

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

There sure as **** is. He has a cushy situation with Feaster setting him up with a ton of talent + oodles of cap space and ownership willing to pay to the cap ceiling, Tod Button continuing what he's done over the last decade across four different GMs, and Tre hasn't done **** with it that Al Coates or Darryl Sutter could not have done - and both those guys walked into ****-show situations unlike Tre. And Feaster, regardless of what people thought of his intelligence or what he "almost" did, put this team in a situation to be four-ish years away from a cup run as he didn't (ACTUALLY) make any crippling signings or terrible draft picks.

So really, Treliving can only really say he's in the mix with Coates, Feaster, and Sutter for one of the four guys in the next tier of Flames GM. Which is a far cry from bolded statement in quote.

What talent are you referring to? If Tod Button is responsible for the drafting like you say (which I agree with you on) then what talent did Feaster set Treliving up with? There isn't a single player on the roster from the Feaster era now.

Wideman?
Jones?
Smid?
Colbourne?
Galiardi?
O'Brien?
Ramo?

The huge hauls he got for Iginla, Bouwmeester, Regehr are sure paying off huge right now.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Hackey

What talent are you referring to? If Tod Button is responsible for the drafting like you say (which I agree with you on) then what talent did Feaster set Treliving up with? There isn't a single player on the roster from the Feaster era now.

Wideman?
Jones?
Smid?
Colbourne?
Galiardi?
O'Brien?
Ramo?

The huge hauls he got for Iginla, Bouwmeester, Regehr are sure paying off huge right now.

Gaudreau is from the Feaster era. So is Monahan. So is Jankowski. As is Kulak.

Regehr trade would look better but Byron was let go for free, otherwise we would have a pretty good asset from that trade.

[Mass_nerder]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Gaudreau is from the Feaster era. So is Monahan. So is Jankowski. As is Kulak.

I think he was suggesting that Button would be responsible for any drafted talent, based on what he bolded.
Bit of a hyperbole to imply that a head scout is solely responsible for scouting/drafting though (although he was just following the logic from the post he quoted, I think).

[Hackey]

Originally Posted by Aarongavey

Gaudreau is from the Feaster era. So is Monahan. So is Jankowski. As is Kulak.

Regehr trade would look better but Byron was let go for free, otherwise we would have a pretty good asset from that trade.

Mass_nerder already covered it.

And to clarify I don't think Button is solely responsible for drafting but I do believe the scouting department as a whole is largely responsible. These are the guys scouting the talent, making the lists, making the calls, etc.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by Hackey

What talent are you referring to? If Tod Button is responsible for the drafting like you say (which I agree with you on) then what talent did Feaster set Treliving up with? There isn't a single player on the roster from the Feaster era now.

Wideman?
Jones?
Smid?
Colbourne?
Galiardi?
O'Brien?
Ramo?

The huge hauls he got for Iginla, Bouwmeester, Regehr are sure paying off huge right now.

You are getting too literal here.

Treliving inherited Backlund, Gaudreau, Monahan, Giordano, Brodie, 2014 #4OA, Kulak, Jankowski, Ferland, Baertschi, Granlund, Hudler, Gillies, Poirier, Klimchuk. Tod Button does deserve more credit for drafting these guys but that doesn't change the fact that Treliving was not starting with a team devoid of talent, particularily young up-and-comers. He also inherited a lot of cap space from Feaster which is not something a next GM would be inheriting from Treliving right now.

[monkeyman]

Should we also blame Button solely for the draft of;
Nystrom
Chucko
Pelech
Irving
Nemisz
Erixon
Or do you think the GM might have something to say about the drafting philosophy, who's being drafted... you know things he's responsible for.