Explosion near the German Embassy in Afghanistan.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

An even more ironic aspect is that historically, Serbs and Croats were not enemies and were brotherly people. The problems didn't start until Britain and France defeated Hungary with Serbia's help and as their prize, the Serbian monarch was allowed to pillage their neighbors.

So basically, the major European powers are the serpent that entered Eden and brought sin to the world. Got it.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

I also think OJ was guilty.

Lucky for Croatia they had an open supply of weapons and equipment from the US and Germany. Hell in Sector South the Croats didn't even take of the German insignia before wearing the uniforms, while they were shooting at us and civilians.

From 1990 to 1993, Croatians had no help from anyone and were being butchered in their homes. Serbs had the entire JNA army that was the 4th largest in Europe. By 1993, things had turned around, but for almost 3 years before it was almost completely a one-sided onslaught of constant terrorizing and killing of Croatians.

Originally Posted by peter12

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Medak_Pocket

Funny how non-Canadian UN observers had a completely different take. The Danes even deny the Canadian account.

At any rate, the American assisted push of Bosnian and Croatian soldiers into the Medak Pocket is also viewed a prevention of genocide prevention. The reason why it was so urgent was that Serbs had surrounded the town of Bihac and another "Sebrenica Massacre" was imminent until the Bosnian-Croatian coalition arrived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Biha%C4%87

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

From 1990 to 1993, Croatians had no help from anyone and were being butchered in their homes. Serbs had the entire JNA army that was the 4th largest in Europe. By 1993, things had turned around, but for almost 3 years before it was almost completely a one-sided onslaught.

Hang about, do you think I am condemning the Croats more than the Serbs?

I am not.

Croatia in my opinion was, and appears to continue to be, very good a winning the political/propaganda battle.

I will say that when dealing with the Serbs I appreciated that they were honest. They straight up wanted to kill Croats. They would tell you that to your face. Given the option they would rather we all left so they could fight it out with the Croats and kill them.

The Croats presented as wanting peace then "with the other hand" try to kill Serbs. Just be honest, say you want to kill that ####er.

FYI, I saw homes destroyed on both sides, there was plenty of butchering going on.

I was shot at, had artillery and mortar bombs dropped on me from both sides.

As I said write the narrative that helps you sleep at night.

[peter12]

Funny how non-Canadian UN observers had a completely different take. The Danes even deny the Canadian account.

Haha, wait, are you saying that it never happened?

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

Funny how non-Canadian UN observers had a completely different take. The Danes even deny the Canadian account.

At any rate, the American assisted push of Bosnian and Croatian soldiers into the Medak Pocket is also viewed a prevention of genocide prevention. The reason why it was so urgent was that Serbs had surrounded the town of Bihac and another "Sebrenica Massacre" was imminent until the Bosnian-Croatian coalition arrived.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Biha%C4%87

So are you saying that it never happened?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

So are you saying that it never happened?

No, not at all. In fact, Zagreb convicted people involved in their courts despite not being part of The Hague tribunals.

I'm just pointing out their are disputed claims about exactly how the conflict happened. Canada even had a publication ban on it.

Sorry if I get upset, but for relevant background, I have family that was directly involved as civilians in northeast Bosnia and Slavonia, long before Canada arrived on the scene. My entire family (except for my sister that lives in Canada as well) was marched out of Bosnia by Serbs and now either live in Osijek or Ljubljana (they even dug up the cemeteries and made them take their ancestors, that is how thorough the ethnic cleansing was). The children were sent off to Germany for a few years. I had one cousin murdered and two female family friends that were taken prisoner and were never seen again (like sold into prostitution by Arkan). I was fortunate enough to be raised in Canada as my father was hippy draft dodger, but I am very close with my family there and right now it is only my sister and I that still live in Canada.

There are no narratives that "help me sleep". You're not the only one that the war was personal for and I suspect since you brought up the topic, you were trolling.

But quite honestly, both Croats and Serbs want to move on more than anything. I have Serb in-laws in fact and despite everything, tolerance is being promoted hard by both sides now.. Like I said, the history of fighting between the two is not as long as people believe. It is certainly dwarfed by the tit-for-tat atrocities committed between ethnic groups like France and Germany, or the crime committed for King and country, or Russia. The European major powers at one time (mainly France, Britain, Germany and Russia) had to artificially construct "balances of power", "spheres of influence", and "buffer countries" to stop each other from killing each other. Neither Serbs or Croats are the worst of the worst and are just people like everyone else. Their situation was collateral damage caused mostly by outside forces. That doesn't excuse war or war crimes, but neither side deserves to be perpetually vilified by outsiders.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

There are no narratives that "help me sleep". You're not the only one that the war was personal for and I suspect since you brought up the topic, you were trolling.

I find it to be in very poor taste for you to equate your experience, thousands of miles away and learning of these events second hand, with those of someone who was literally being shot at. I find it in worse taste for you to suggest that he was "trolling" you about it, in light of that reality. I have no doubt that these events affected you, but that suggestion crosses a line.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I find it to be in very poor taste for you to equate your experience, thousands of miles away and learning of these events second hand, with those of someone who was literally being shot at. I find it in worse taste for you to suggest that he was "trolling" you about it, in light of that reality. I have no doubt that these events affected you, but that suggestion crosses a line.

I am not equating anything, just pointing out that his experience was a snapshot and why it is an emotional topic. Despite being thousands of miles away, they are not strangers to me any more than your family are strangers to you. Learning second hand, sure, but it was virtually in real time. Not like it was years after the fact. The fears and worries were real. I understand UB's position and we have talked about it before, both on PM and in threads. It was curious timing to bring up the topic since no one was talking about it. UB if you are offended, then I am sorry for that. We are kindred spirits and if we knew each other, I have no doubt that we would be best buds.

You often hear about the peace keeper's perspective, but early in the war, there were no peace keepers so there is a lack of information and bias if no one speaks up. Imagine what would happen if ISIS was suddenly defeated... you would see see massive reprisals against their supporters. If someone was airlifted into that position, the war would look completely different to them than to people who lived through the first part of it.

[Bagor]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

I find it to be in very poor taste for you to equate your experience, thousands of miles away and learning of these events second hand, with those of someone who was literally being shot atight of that reality.

And I find your post dismissive and minimizing of his experiences.

[peter12]

You often hear about the peace keeper's perspective, but early in the war, there were no peace keepers so there is a lack of information and bias if no one speaks up. Imagine what would happen if ISIS was suddenly defeated... you would see see massive reprisals against their supporters. If someone was airlifted into that position, the war would look completely different to them than to people who lived through the first part of it.

You insinuated that what he saw never actually happened.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by peter12

You insinuated that what he saw never actually happened.

What I said was directly from the link you posted. Obviously stuff happened between Croat and Canadian forces, but the exact nature and certainly the intent is disputed.

Honestly, out of respect for UB and people who suffered from that conflict, I am not going to continue rehashing it. Too many people from all sides were hurt and need to heal still. Picking at the wound does no good.