3 years ago we all said a 5 year rebuild would be fine.

[Frequitude]

I don't think this core can win a Cup, but I don't care. They'll be good enough to make the playoffs and be fun to watch.

I am satisfied with the progress and projection.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Bingo

Actually I think I'm capable of defining what a bubble team is for me on my own.

A team between the new world .500 and a playoff spot is a bubble team in my mind, and that's what they are.

At least for a few more hours!

In the NHL at the moment there are three tiers in the standings:

Solidly in the playoffs
Playoff bubble team
Out of it

Only 2 teams fit the last category so I would argue that Flames are without a doubt a playoff bubble team but that category is not overly meaningful.

[Toonage]

Nm

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I didn't say trade them away at peak value. But you can't wait for them to have no value. Or more accurately - you can't wait for ALL of them to have ZERO value. You can keep some of them to compete and mentor, but you have to balance short-term and long-term needs. It isn't binary.

And no - not every team auctions pending UFAs when the season was lost. The Flames refused to do that for years.

Moreover, Treliving did it even when his team was in and MADE the playoffs (Glencross).

It can feel like axe grinding to you but if you can't see the long-term implications of bad moves I can't help you and it is pointless to continue to discuss things.

I don't think that anyone here is unable to see the long term implications of bad moves as you say. That's a bit of a cop out imo. If you trade Guadreau today for a couple fire and ice girls you can bet it's gonna hurt today, tomorrow and in a few years. The OP is correct in saying Sutter is responsible for some of the best years we as Flames fans have known. Outside of him it has been down right awful. Sure he made some mistakes but to say we are still paying for it is nonsense.

Good GM's have turned around similarly worse situations in far shorter time frames. Sutter himself inherited a freaking disaster and turned it into something special for a number or years. When you have a guy like Feaster come in and have the effect of a wet fart for three seasons, that is what sets you back.

Accomplish something. Move the needle but don't play it safe and merely tow the line.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

I didn't say trade them away at peak value. But you can't wait for them to have no value. Or more accurately - you can't wait for ALL of them to have ZERO value. You can keep some of them to compete and mentor, but you have to balance short-term and long-term needs. It isn't binary.

And no - not every team auctions pending UFAs when the season was lost. The Flames refused to do that for years.

Moreover, Treliving did it even when his team was in and MADE the playoffs (Glencross).

It can feel like axe grinding to you but if you can't see the long-term implications of bad moves I can't help you and it is pointless to continue to discuss things.

Of course I see the long term implications of bad moves but we differ on this situation. That is different than blaming Sutter for the current state of the organization. Surely you can see that?

[Flash Walken]

Either the flames owners are freaking awful at hiring general managers or the flames owners are freaking awful at letting their managers succeed, but either way you don't suck as an organization for a quarter of a century without the blame being laid squarely at the feet of the owners themselves.

It is honestly difficult to suck this badly for this long.

But we know Craig Button couldn't fire Gilbert because he wasn't allowed to, we know Darryl operated on a bizarre no fixed term contract. We know Brent was constantly interfered with while coach and we know Feaster couldn't take the team in the direction he apparently wanted to.

Now we know the flames are operating uniquely in the league by not having a contract in place for next season with the team's general manager.

But it is probably Darryl Sutter's fault. After all, this flames team was a perennial contender in the 14 years between winning the cup and hiring Darryl.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Of course I see the long term implications of bad moves but we differ on this situation. That is different than blaming Sutter for the current state of the organization. Surely you can see that?

I'm not blaming Sutter for the current state. But I'm underscoring that, in part due to him, in part due to ownership, and in part due to Feaster - that when the new regime took over they had very few quality assets to work with.
And that means the re-build will be longer and more painful.

[stone hands]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Being a customer doesn't entitle you to a point of view on the quality of the product? Of course it does. It doesn't mean you run the company but you don't think successful companies make an attempt to understand what their customers want? I don't understand what you are arguing. I would love for Brian Burke to come out and repeat your first sentence.

So you're saying the owners don't know that the fans want a cup then?

Professional sports is entertainment, it's not a product that you can send back to the factory if it's defective

If you don't like the product, stop consuming it

[Flash Walken]

Originally Posted by MikeMc

Whatever dude, it'd be pissed if i had season tickets and players were seemingly this non-invested in doing work/winning/putting out a decent product over certain stretches this year.

Yes the slide will pass and I'm sure some good games will be held at the dome for the remainder of this season but it's their right as season ticket holders to bitch and moan.

Telling ticket holders to 'get over themselves' seems mighty arrogant BTW.

Expecting the team to always be good is unrealistic. Expecting the Calgary frickin flames to always be good is borderline mental ######ation.

You buy seasons tickets, you'd better be prepared to watch some stinkers. Don't want to take that risk? Buy singles.

Source: family owned seasons tickets from the mid 80s to mid 90s.

[MarkGio]

Originally Posted by Flash Walken

Either the flames owners are freaking awful at hiring general managers or the flames owners are freaking awful at letting their managers succeed, but either way you don't suck as an organization for a quarter of a century without the blame being laid squarely at the feet of the owners themselves.

It is honestly difficult to suck this badly for this long.

But we know Craig Button couldn't fire Gilbert because he wasn't allowed to, we know Darryl operated on a bizarre no fixed term contract. We know Brent was constantly interfered with while coach and we know Feaster couldn't take the team in the direction he apparently wanted to.

Now we know the flames are operating uniquely in the league by not having a contract in place for next season with the team's general manager.

But it is probably Darryl Sutter's fault. After all, this flames team was a perennial contender in the 14 years between winning the cup and hiring Darryl.

I didn't know any of this but none of it surprises me. I can honestly see how a billionaire business owner is fantastic at running an Oil & Gas corporation but god-awful at running a sports team. Think about any other business owner. You think a landscaper can own a restaurant?

You can't operate a sports team on a balance sheet, and if you're goal is to always be in the black, chances are you're not winning a championship.