Sorry pal, God(religious) and reality cannot co-exist.
Another thread you're derailing with you broad brush anti-religion agenda
We get it. You dont like religion - even those religions who are advancing messages of peace and tolerance. In your mind it's only religion and not politics to blame - and in your mind all religions should be treated equally (which ignores a lot of present day truth)
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Really? I'd take ISIL over the Soviet Union 1000x out of 1000. Islam doesn't have #### on Bolshevism.
Bolshevism wouldn't happen today, completely crazy leaders like Stalin and Hitler would never get enough support in this day in age to see something like that happen again.
Radical Islam is this century's brutality, it doesn't have one leader, it's everywhere, from the middle east to possibly across your street, it's a perverted ideology and it needs an enema now.
Another thread you're derailing with you broad brush anti-religion agenda
We get it. You dont like religion - even those religions who are advancing messages of peace and tolerance. In your mind it's only religion and not politics to blame - and in your mind all religions should be treated equally (which ignores a lot of present day truth)
So what is the toll at in France in the past year? Must be getting near 300 people killed in terrorist attacks. Eventually #### is going to hit the fan on the street level.
They can talk about fighting ISIS in Syria and Iraq, but eventually the people are going to want tangible retribution.
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"A pessimist thinks things can't get any worse. An optimist knows they can."
So what is the toll at in France in the past year? Must be getting near 300 people killed in terrorist attacks. Eventually #### is going to hit the fan on the street level.
They can talk about fighting ISIS in Syria and Iraq, but eventually the people are going to want tangible retribution.
It's pretty crazy. Why France I wonder? Doesn't Germany have a higher Muslim population?
It's pretty crazy. Why France I wonder? Doesn't Germany have a higher Muslim population?
Doesn't France pride itself on being a secular nation? So I think they have had quite a few policies restricting Muslim dress and prayer in public. I'm sure this rubs the terrorists the wrong way.
Doesn't France pride itself on being a secular nation? So I think they have had quite a few policies restricting Muslim dress and prayer in public. I'm sure this rubs the terrorists the wrong way.
Maybe France could use some more Jesus right about now.
It's pretty crazy. Why France I wonder? Doesn't Germany have a higher Muslim population?
Joie de vivre really pisses off weird, outcast losers. Kind of just rubs your nose in during your Ramadan fast. France's history in north Africa doesn't help either I would imagine. Germans aren't happy enough to warrant attacks.
According to this article there is also the issue of prejudice. Whatever term people use for intolerance, it seems the out group bias has some part according to this report.
I don't doubt there's prejudice in France (and everywhere else). But why aren't the children of black African immigrants to France committing acts of mass murder? Why are these attackers of Algerian, Moroccan, and Tunisian descent, and not from Senegal, Gambia, or the Ivory Coast?
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Originally Posted by fotze
If this day gets you riled up, you obviously aren't numb to the disappointment yet to be a real fan.
I don't doubt there's prejudice in France (and everywhere else). But why aren't the children of black African immigrants to France committing acts of mass murder? Why are these attackers of Algerian, Moroccan, and Tunisian descent, and not from Senegal, Gambia, or the Ivory Coast?
Arabs are crazier? Two of those central African countries are muslim majority, so not sure what point you're trying to get across.
Years ago I started this debate on team "all religions are equally bad" but the more I learn about Islam and the Koran, the more I realize it that Islam stands alone in terms of brutality and intolerance to human nature and other cultures. It is very easy to support the mass murder of infidels when using the Koran as your moral compass.
I realize a number of factors go into creating such a tragedy, but when a young, jaded euro Muslim turns to the Koran for support (ie-the indisputable word of god) and the Koran tells them "kill them all, wherever you may find them".
Muslim integration into western society requires either a massive reformation of Islam, or the slow dissolution of service to their religion as Muslims realize that western technology and medicine is preferable to a desert barbarian religion started by an illiterate child rapist
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It should be obvious that they're not all "equally bad" - if every islamist and jihadist were to magically be converted to jainism tomorrow the problem of religious violence would diminish immensely. Of course, there would then be some other tribal violence that would take precedence, and we'd have to deal with that.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
Unfortunately when people talk about giving terrorists what they want - They want to take our freedom. America gave terrorists exactly what they wanted after 9-11.
And specific to ISIS, one of their many goals is exactly how America is responding again - To make life worse for moderate Muslims - who they also hate and target - so that the west becomes less Muslim friendly, less open, less free.
They'll accomplish that goal with flying colours, unfortunately, and we'll be right there helping them accomplish it.
Note that isn't saying all reaction is incorrect or misguided, when pushed people/society are going to react, just pointing out how difficult the fight against ISIS really is, when almost every societal/human instinct is actually helping their cause.
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This might be another Orlando, not a true Islamic Extremist terrorist attack, just some loser who wanted to go out and saw a chance to use ISIS as the reason.
Quote:
According to Tunisian security sources, Lahouaiej Bouhlel hailed from the Tunisian town of Msaken, which is close to the seaside city of Sousse, where 38 people, including 30 Britons, were gunned down by terrorists in June 2015.
French television station BFM TV reported that he was a divorced father of three who had become depressed following the breakdown of his marriage.
Neighbours told the channel he was not particularly interested in religion, adding that he preferred girls and salsa.
They said that he had been unhappy since he divorce, and that he suffered from financial problems.
Neighbors described him as "depressed and unstable, even agressive" of late. They put this down to his "marital and financial problems".
One told BFM TV he was "more into women than religion".
"He (didn't) pray and like(d) girls and Salsa," according to BFM's crime correspondent.
Jasmine, 40 said: "He was rude and bit weird.
"We would hold the door open for him and he would just blank him. He kept himself to himself but would always rant about his wife. He had martial problems and would tell people in the local cafe. He scared my children though."
She added: "He was very smart with the same haircut as George Clooney."
Sébastien, a neighbour, said he "didn't have the apparence of a religious person and was often in shorts, sometimes wearing 'security' shoes". Another neighbour, Anan, said that she found him shifty and described him as "a good-looking man who eyed up my two girls too much".
One resident told the Telegraph: "He was quiet and moody. I did not know whether he was a Muslim. I think he had a motorbike."
Unfortunately when people talk about giving terrorists what they want - They want to take our freedom. America gave terrorists exactly what they wanted after 9-11.
Honestly, if I'm a Frenchman right now, I'd be inclined to give up some of that freedom if it meant safety for my family. Obviously it can be a slippery slope, but freedom means little if you're living in constant fear anyway.
Either way, I don't think the West gets past this without some really hard, and probably harsh, decisions.
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I try to avoid using anecdotal evidence, where possible. But I also try to avoid assumptions where possible.
You made the statement that most Muslims feel the same (equivalent?) outrage to the average secular westerner over such terrorist acts. I don't see evidence to support this claim. There is certainly compelling evidence to counter the claim.
The interesting data point here is the following at least to me:
This data is from 2009, Pew global Attitudes Survey. It's good data.
Do you think that 3 in 10 non-muslims in Britain would say that suicide bombings can be justified?
Half of the populations of Jordan, Eqgypt and Lebanon feel suicide bombings can be justified. Hell, 4 in 10 Muslims in FRANCE, think suicide bombings can be justified.
And yet, you think the prevalence of the justification of extremist actions is irrelevant because in the end most of these people don't have the cajones to actually do it?
I think these attitude difference are central to the problem.
Wow, that chart is scary. If the stats in Canada are similar to that in the US, that means one of the four Muslim guys I work with believe there can be justification for suicide bombs against civilian targets in defence of their imaginary friend.
that means one of the four Muslim guys I work with believe there can be justification for suicide bombs against civilian targets in defence of their imaginary friend.
No it doesn't. That's not how statistics work.
__________________ "The great promise of the Internet was that more information would automatically yield better decisions. The great disappointment is that more information actually yields more possibilities to confirm what you already believed anyway." - Brian Eno
