[PGT] Fire Sale Predictions Thread: Flames lose 4-2

[ComixZone]

Wideman has a full NMC, not an NTC.

[Frank MetaMusil]

Originally Posted by FlamesNation23

Hartley is not the coach that is going to take this team to the next level. Love what he did last year, but you can clearly see that his system isnt working plus some of his decisions are super questionable. Hopefully Treliving figures that out sooner than later

Hartley already took them to the next level. Round two of the playoffs for the first time in 10 seasons. An all-time franchise record home winning streak this season as well.

Treliving should stop signing junkers and manage his roster properly. Anyone with a brain can see Mason Raymond is just clogging up the roster because of his contract.

[GranteedEV]

Just watched the game.

+
Gaudreau. The best player on the ice.

Backlund - a beast in all three zones tonight. Our best center by far.

Ferland - Why the hell was he taken off the Johnny line? He was part of goal 1, and his drive opened up goal 2. Also a beast along the boards all game.

Bennett - Nothing needs to be said.

Smid - Can we please get Ladislav Smid on our second pairing with Hamilton and just roll Kulak-Nakladal for the other 8-10 minutes?

Brodie/Gio - They want that 3rd goal back but otherwise effective.

-
Wideman on offense. He just gets tunnel vision this year, what happened to those sick passes he's capable of making?

Russell. Seriously, check his coverage on the first goal, he's just standing there without any plan. He was constantly hemmed in until score effects kicked in. I don't even care if he scored a PP goal, he had a poor game, albeit a typical Kris Russell Game.

The Refs. The overhead view and Giordano's reaction should have made it clear that third goal was goalie interference.

[djsFlames]

Yeah, Smid was really solid, if not outstanding in the limited time he was on the ice. He's the physical stay at home defenceman we were lacking in the first half of the season and dare I say we're under utilizing him. Making smart decisions and was winning battles along the boards. Moving the puck around pretty well, too.

I wouldn't object to him getting some more minutes.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by djsFlames

Yeah, Smid was really solid, if not outstanding in the limited time he was on the ice. He's the physical stay at home defenceman we were lacking in the first half of the season and dare I say we're under utilizing him. Making smart decisions and was winning battles along the boards. Moving the puck around pretty well, too.

I wouldn't object to him getting some more minutes.

Smid since Dec 1:

9 GP
49.5% Corsi For
53.1% Fenwick For
55% Shots For
56.4% Scoring Chances For
63.3% High-Danger Chances For

Watch him be a scratch next game.

[dammage79]

Perhaps one thing to consider would be Smid's effectiveness is due to the limited GP he has had. I'd like to see him dress more and I think with the sell off coming hopefully soon we will see Smid dress for the rest of the season.

I missed the game tonight but I did watch the highlights. Hiller looked like he played really well. Stumpy's goal could have been saved but thats about it really.

[Chingas]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Just watched the game.

+
Gaudreau. The best player on the ice.

Backlund - a beast in all three zones tonight. Our best center by far.

Ferland - Why the hell was he taken off the Johnny line? He was part of goal 1, and his drive opened up goal 2. Also a beast along the boards all game.

Bennett - Nothing needs to be said.

Smid - Can we please get Ladislav Smid on our second pairing with Hamilton and just roll Kulak-Nakladal for the other 8-10 minutes?

Brodie/Gio - They want that 3rd goal back but otherwise effective.

-
Wideman on offense. He just gets tunnel vision this year, what happened to those sick passes he's capable of making?

Russell. Seriously, check his coverage on the first goal, he's just standing there without any plan. He was constantly hemmed in until score effects kicked in. I don't even care if he scored a PP goal, he had a poor game, albeit a typical Kris Russell Game.

The Refs. The overhead view and Giordano's reaction should have made it clear that third goal was goalie interference.

I agree with everything except for the interference. I don't think it was worthy of calling the goal back.

Hiller was fighting the puck right from the start of the game. He never did settle in and I hope that Ramo is good to go again. If i never have to watch Hiller react 5 seconds late with his glove hand again, it will be too soon.

[Dajazz]

Losing sucks, but last year was an anomaly. This is a blessing in disguise and will strengthen Treliving's long term view - we're not ready, not even close. Sell what can be sold within reason and keep the focus going forward. The sky is not falling, I could not expect playoffs again this year although bottom 5 is a little too extreme.

We need some strength on the back end who can stop the cycling game and get the puck out of the zone (bye bye Russell and Wideman) as well as 2 proper wingers in the top 6, Hudler is not cutting it. Frolik is awesome on the second line so he's a keeper. As for next year, if Bennett ir ready for centre duty we're looking quite good up the middle (Monahan, Bennett, Backlund, Stajan + farm), but apart from Frolik and Gaudreau who's a top 6 winger? Ferland could be, Granlund is not, neither is Jones, Raymond, Jooris et al.

Running Gio/Brodie and Smid/Hamilton is fine with me in the top 4. That'd leave 10-15 min for the likes of Engelland, Wideman, Nakladal etc.

[driveway]

Just watched the game, that was an either-or game. Could easily have gone either way and the way we played in the 3rd we maybe deserved a better outcome.

Don't really blame anyone on that 1st goal, just a great play by the Devils. 2nd goal, Hamilton goes for a hit at the blueline which gives up the 2-on-1 but Hiller really should have had that, went right through him.
3rd goal, eh, scrappy, ugly, didn't really think it was interference.

We get ourselves some above-average goaltending and this team is set up to really be good.

[locsofblu]

I think this is it for playoffs. I hope from here on in they compete hard and end up with a great pick.

[Badgers Nose]

Im not ready to wave the white flag yet. Anything can happen in the crappy pacific.

But i would still like to see a veteran fire sale.

[Poe969]

For this team to have a "fire sale" I think they have to string together a few good games first. No one is going to want Wideman right now after watching him play the way he has, he needs to really step it up and be used properly. Same with Hudler, he needs to be put in a position of strength to up his value.

The problem is that if we put Hudler with Monahan and Johnny, people will be mad that Ferland isn't playing there but Hudler has to be put somewhere that makes him look better. Wideman shouldn't be scratched, he should be sheltered and put in only offensive situations so he can play the only game of his that's seen as a positive.

Then, if the team starts to win and play better and the players we should trade have value, everyone's going to want to do everything they can to try and make the playoffs because "anything can happen" and won't want to trade those assets.

No one wants our players that are playing like crap. If they play good and the team starts to win a few games, no one will want to trade the players because they think we can still make it. Management needs to come up with some sort of "magic number" for the Flames to meet and if they don't keep a certain pace, players should be shopped. Personally, I think the playoffs are a pipe dream for this team now. They haven't played well enough to think they could do anything in the playoffs and they've got too many teams ahead of them. I think guys should be shopped asap while trying to get players that help the team's future but can still play now while bringing up kids from the farm. IMO a top 3-5 pick would make this team a heck of a lot better than 4 playoff games would.

[868904]

Originally Posted by driveway

Don't really blame anyone on that 1st goal, just a great play by the Devils. 2nd goal, Hamilton goes for a hit at the blueline which gives up the 2-on-1 but Hiller really should have had that, went right through him.
3rd goal, eh, scrappy, ugly, didn't really think it .

the first goal was on Russell. He had the puck with little pressure and blindly threw it to the point thinking Ferland was there but he wasn't, Devils gained possession and scored after a long cycle. All he had to do was take a peek and make the safer play of rimming it.

There was a lot of stupid blind passes to the opposition in this game. Glencross would have been proud. Guys were trying to be too cute instead of taking the safe easy play.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

There are a lot of teams in the mix for the playoffs. The Atlantic is tight. Central is brutally tough. Hopefully it will play out that it will be a sellers market, as I think BT knows the Flames have a ways to go. Wideman might be tough with the extra year, but I do think they could move him and almost for sure Hudler, Russell and/or Jones.

I think after the road trip and the all-star break, the dominoes will start to fall. Better to get the jump than to wait until the deadline, IMO.

[polak]

Originally Posted by Dajazz

Losing sucks, but last year was an anomaly. This is a blessing in disguise and will strengthen Treliving's long term view - we're not ready, not even close. Sell what can be sold within reason and keep the focus going forward. The sky is not falling, I could not expect playoffs again this year although bottom 5 is a little too extreme.

I think this is the hardest thing to stomach this season. Last year we looked like we had one of the best top lines in the league and that was all set and that we had one of the best defensive cores and that was all set. This year the reality is more like:

1st line players on a contender:
- Gaudreau

2nd line players on a contender:
- Monahan
- Bennett (Maybe. Not quite there yet but if he keeps his recent play up I'd consider him there. I think he will surpass Monahan next year though)

The rest of our forwards top out at bottom 6'ers on contending teams (Frolik included). That's 3 top six players we need to find and the cupboards on the farm are bare.

Defense looks a little better as the top 3 looks good. Gio and Brodie are definitely a top pair on a contender and I think Hamilton is top 4 on a contender but I'd say right now he's a #4 and needs a strong partner next to him to be an effective 2nd pairing on a contender. That means we need to find a solid #3 defensemen. Luckily, the farm does look better here as hopefully Kylington and Andersson can step up. Bottom pairing doesn't really matter. Wideman and Russel could be an acceptable bottom pair.

The forward situation really does worry me though as we're looking like it will be tight capwise in the near future so UFA's probably won't work, no one on the farm looks to be trending to be a top 6 player and our only pieces with trade value would open up another hole....

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by polak

I think this is the hardest thing to stomach this season. Last year we looked like we had one of the best top lines in the league and that was all set and that we had one of the best defensive cores and that was all set. This year the reality is more like:

1st line players on a contender:
- Gaudreau

2nd line players on a contender:
- Monahan
- Bennett (Maybe. Not quite there yet but if he keeps his recent play up I'd consider him there. I think he will surpass Monahan next year though)

The rest of our forwards top out at bottom 6'ers on contending teams (Frolik included). That's 3 top six players we need to find and the cupboards on the farm are bare.

Defense looks a little better as the top 3 looks good. Gio and Brodie are definitely a top pair on a contender and I think Hamilton is top 4 on a contender but I'd say right now he's a #4 and needs a strong partner next to him to be an effective 2nd pairing on a contender. That means we need to find a solid #3 defensemen. Luckily, the farm does look better here as hopefully Kylington and Andersson can step up. Bottom pairing doesn't really matter. Wideman and Russel could be an acceptable bottom pair.

The forward situation really does worry me though as we're looking like it will be tight capwise in the near future so UFA's probably won't work, no one on the farm looks to be trending to be a top 6 player and our only pieces with trade value would open up another hole....

You underrate Frolik then cause he could be a 2nd liner on many contenders IMO. Hamilton I think can be a #3 guy as well, don't forget how young he is. Bennett will be a 1st liner in short time. Ferland will grow into a top two line role in time IMO, he's looked good up with Johnny and Monny.

I think this draft is the likely source of a future top 6 forward for us or top 4 defenseman. And if we draft real high then they may be able to step in right away. Treliving will obviously have to scour the FA market and look for trades to improve us as well. One more Frolik like signing would help a lot.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Psytic

I think they have pretty much caught up to us. Took them 10 yrs but I think its real close right now.

Disagree. I think the gap is smaller, but I also think the Oilers' goaltending has been masking some of their defensive problems (while our goaltending has been exposing ours).

I was thinking about this after the game last night, and I think our goaltending is a blessing in disguise because it casts a very bright light on the problems that the team still faces.

Sometimes, strong goaltending can prop up what is otherwise a very average team (NJ is an example).

Fix the problems AND get better goaltending. Then you have a better team.

[CroFlames]

Originally Posted by polak

I think this is the hardest thing to stomach this season. Last year we looked like we had one of the best top lines in the league and that was all set and that we had one of the best defensive cores and that was all set. This year the reality is more like:

1st line players on a contender:
- Gaudreau

2nd line players on a contender:
- Monahan
- Bennett (Maybe. Not quite there yet but if he keeps his recent play up I'd consider him there. I think he will surpass Monahan next year though)

The rest of our forwards top out at bottom 6'ers on contending teams (Frolik included). That's 3 top six players we need to find and the cupboards on the farm are bare.

Defense looks a little better as the top 3 looks good. Gio and Brodie are definitely a top pair on a contender and I think Hamilton is top 4 on a contender but I'd say right now he's a #4 and needs a strong partner next to him to be an effective 2nd pairing on a contender. That means we need to find a solid #3 defensemen. Luckily, the farm does look better here as hopefully Kylington and Andersson can step up. Bottom pairing doesn't really matter. Wideman and Russel could be an acceptable bottom pair.

The forward situation really does worry me though as we're looking like it will be tight capwise in the near future so UFA's probably won't work, no one on the farm looks to be trending to be a top 6 player and our only pieces with trade value would open up another hole....

A 30 goal, 60 point centerman who plays PP and PK is a 2nd liner on other teams? Interesting. He has an awesome shot to boot.

It's not surprising you don't even rate Frolik as a 2nd liner then.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

A 30 goal, 60 point centerman who plays PP and PK is a 2nd liner on other teams? Interesting.

I posted this in another thread in October, Monahan has done nothing to change my mind:

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

In what world is Monahan a top tier first line center? He plays a first line role on this team, a team that hasn't had a true first line center since Nieuwendyk. Can you honestly say he was a better center last year than Langkow or Conroy (2002) at their peaks for us? No, you can say he put up nice numbers and he's only 20 year old. Guess what, that "he's only 20 years old" part is a way of brushing aside the fact that his game isn't as complete as people want to think. He's a young player with a ton of upside. That's exactly why you want to bridge him because if his development plateaus, he's not a #1 center and he's probably worth around 5.5 million a year. People laugh at the Ryan O'Reilly contract but right now ROR is a better hockey player than Monahan. And you can bet Monahan's agent is pushing for ROR money.

Here's what we know about Monahan:

- Right now, he's #3 on the penalty kill order. Stajan and Backlund play ahead of him. (and now Granlund)
- Right now, he's a weak possession player. He's not very dominant behind the net and he's the opposite of physical, when he gets a hit on the stat sheet it's usually more of a light shove. He's less physical than Dougie Hamilton, Kris Russell, Mikael Backlund, Matt Stajan.
- He's not (being used as) a go-to guy on the power play. Look at every true #1 Center in the NHL and they are a go-to-guy on the power play for their team. He's on the number one unit but how often does he set up to create something?
- He's not been especially good with faceoffs. 44.2% this year so far, 49.3% last year, 45.9% his rookie year. 49.8% right now
- Right now, he has an excellent snap shot and wrist shot. By far one of the best in the league.
- He's a smart passer but his actual playmaking skills are still developing.

The list of true #1Cs is full of guys that are a full tier to four tiers ahead of him offensively as creators. Some of those guys might be "Old" but that doesn't make them "Worse":

Malkin
Crosby
Tavares
Getzlaf
Seguin
Datsyuk
Thornton
H. Sedin
Giroux
Kopitar
Carter
Toews
Krejci
Stamkos
Johnson
Zetterberg
Bergeron
Statsny
Backes
Backstrom
Johansen
Spezza

Off the top of my head. Which of these players is not a clear upgrade on Monahan right now?

There is a ton of room to grow for the Monny and that's not an indictment on his talent. He's not a #1 Center right now just because he plays on a #1 line just like Malkin is not a #2 Center right now just because he plays on a #2 line.

What tier is Monahan in right now? I'm thinking:

Pavelski
Kuznetsov
McDavid
Eichel
(Matthews.. poor guy's a day too young)
MacKinnon
Barkov
Monahan
Turris
Dubinsky
Stepan
Brassard
Little
Kesler
Plekanec
Galchenyuk
Couture
Nugent-Hopkins
Scheifele
O'Reilly
Kadri
Duchene
Ribiero
Lehtera
(Draisaitl)
(Bennett)

No shame in that at Age 21 but guys who are #2 Centers or have #1 Center potential. And in my opinion, the guys I've got ahead of Monahan on that list, are either better than Monahan now, or younger and can be better than Monahan in the future.

I've also bolded guys IMO who've taken a step since October and I would take over Monahan presently.

[Your Calgary Flames!]

Anyone by chance have the clip of Raymond doing one of his stop and turn passing it to nobody in the offensive zone then the puck exits the zone?