[OT] Faithful fans getting fed up with mediocrity: Jets losing sales sizzle

[Slanter]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

This will also need to be weighed against the Jets's ability to keep their roster intact as the cap continues to escalate. It will be a very difficult task given their already-maxed-out revenue potential.

Yes, but most of their core is signed through the next 4-5 years. So, I think you can expect the Jets to keep their players together over that timeframe. Furthermore, they do seem to have some good prospects who shouldn't be making huge money at that point.

So... long story short, I think we'll be in a better spot to judge the Jets in 4-5 years. Give them a chance... They inherited a poorly managed team from Atlanta. Since then they've made some good drafts, have managed to retain their key players as they hit free agency, and the building is sold out for the foreseeable future.

It's a bit silly to write them off just because the re-sale market for tickets has softened a bit.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Slanter

Yes, but most of their core is signed through the next 4-5 years. So, I think you can expect the Jets to keep their players together over that timeframe...

I disagree.

As I pointed out in a previous post, there are significant deals that will need to be negotiated for several players beginning in 2016, which is only two years away. This is inevitably something that every team faces, but the big difference with the Jets is that they are already running at full capacity of their revenue streams, and only covering a mid-range payroll. Keeping this group together will be impossible if they are not a cap team, and they don't appear to have the means to be a cap team in three-years time when the high end could soar north of $75 m.

[albertGQ]

Just read the last 4 pages of this thread. Surprised it took that long for someone to call out New Era for his average ticket price of $260. LOL.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by macrov

Where are you guys getting these numbers from? (1)check the price list...how many seats in the dome cost $200+ per game? I doubt the average face value per seat is anywhere near $260 a game (2) the flames have 14k season tickets that they get season ticket price revenues on, they're not getting door prices on 75%+ of their seats, but sell them at a discount to sths (3) the Jets are missing the most marginal seats...so $25 a ticket. So why you're basing numbers on avg pricing is a mystery (4) an average stadium in the NHL seats around 17k, the dome fits more because they have fewer luxury seats...and luxury seats are the highest revenue seats, so the flames are have more cheap seats but less expensive seats (5) Winnipeg purposely wanted a small stadium to increase scarcity value because it lowers the likelihood people will give up their season seats b/c when their is a wait list there is a lower probability of getting the seats back when the team so good: aka contributes to a stronger primary market and gives more stability when the team sucks. The largest value of having season tickets is the playoff rights, and the value increases with the length of the wait list.

Those numbers are secondary market (or resale) prices, not average prices.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...st_in_nhl.html

Average ticket prices are much lower:

http://www.fancostexperience.com/pag...020_pdf001.pdf

Flames are $66.35 and Jets are $97.84.

Flames = $66.35 x 45 games x 19,289 seats = = $57,592,131.70
Jets = $97.84 x 45 games x 15,003 seats = = $66,055,208.40

Then take a team like San Jose, a middle of the pack team:

Sharks = $51.47 x 44 games x 17,496 seats = $39,622,841.30

So in ticket sales the Jets are $25 million ahead of the Sharks but nobody would ever say the Sharks are in danger of moving. Fact is, the Jets will never be an upper-range team in revenue but they should comfortably be in that 10-20 range as long as they're in Winnipeg. They're not in danger of moving now or anytime down the road, particularly with the casino subsidy and investment in the arena district.

[troutman]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

Now we have a potential sliding Canadian dollar and a sliding gate. Could it become possible that Winnipeg becomes even less profitable of a market then the Thrashers?

I don't think so. IIRC, the new CBA has a mechanism to protect CDN teams against fluctuations in the $? I think the building will be sold out for a long time, though it might be easier to get tickets on the re-sale market. The NHL has signed huge TV deals with NBC and Rogers since the Jets returned. Winnipeg will continue to grow economically and population wise. The owner is very wealthy. If things get tough, we've seen what some cities will do to hold on to the team (Glendale).

I don't doubt they will still be there in 25 years.

[Sidney Crosby's Hat]

Originally Posted by troutman

I don't think so. IIRC, the new CBA has a mechanism to protect CDN teams against fluctuations in the $? I think the building will be sold out for a long time, though it might be easier to get tickets on the re-sale market. The NHL has signed huge TV deals with NBC and Rogers since the Jets returned. Winnipeg will continue to grow economically and population wise. The owner is very wealthy. If things get tough, we've seen what some cities will do to hold on to the team (Glendale).

I don't doubt they will still be there in 25 years.

100% agree.

Because Canadian teams are such a high percentage of total NHL revenue, due to linkage the cap would go down if the Canadian dollar took a big hit anyway.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Sidney Crosby's Hat

Those numbers are secondary market (or resale) prices, not average prices.

http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/...st_in_nhl.html

Average ticket prices are much lower:

http://www.fancostexperience.com/pag...020_pdf001.pdf

Flames are $66.35 and Jets are $97.84.

Flames = $66.35 x 45 games x 19,289 seats = = $57,592,131.70
Jets = $97.84 x 45 games x 15,003 seats = = $66,055,208.40

Then take a team like San Jose, a middle of the pack team:

Sharks = $51.47 x 44 games x 17,496 seats = $39,622,841.30

So in ticket sales the Jets are $25 million ahead of the Sharks but nobody would ever say the Sharks are in danger of moving. Fact is, the Jets will never be an upper-range team in revenue but they should comfortably be in that 10-20 range as long as they're in Winnipeg. They're not in danger of moving now or anytime down the road, particularly with the casino subsidy and investment in the arena district.

Reasonable, but not quite. FCI does not include luxury suites, nor does it include "premium seating". i.e.: It is very likely that their average price excludes the club seats.

The Saddledome has 72 suites, and I think 8 of those single-rental boxes at the hupper corners, while MTS has, iirc, 46 suites. Those 26 extra suites make a significant difference. I'm unsure about San Jose. I could't find an exact number of suites, but their website says they go for $130,000 each this season.

[superfarmer]

The shine is coming off the turd

[カナダ人です]

Do the Jets and Oilers make good trade partners? Both teams could use a shake-up.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

You have Edmonton listed as more desirable than Calgary. Sorry but your list is wrong and this isn't me being homer as there is no way Edmonton is more desirable than Calgary for most players.

I did that on purpose because everyone on this board acts like Edmonton is a hole, including myself (I live 90 minutes away and never go there outside of for work a couple times a year). But to anyone outside of Alberta, the differnece between Calgary and Edmonton is indistinguishable. How many UFA players has Calgary been able to attract over Edmonton recently? I don't think players have Calgary or Edmonton high on their list.

[Cheerio]

Originally Posted by Flacker

Yup, crowd noise sure helps pay the bills!

You seriously don't see how those 2 things are related?

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I did that on purpose because everyone on this board acts like Edmonton is a hole, including myself (I live 90 minutes away and never go there outside of for work a couple times a year). But to anyone outside of Alberta, the differnece between Calgary and Edmonton is indistinguishable. How many UFA players has Calgary been able to attract over Edmonton recently? I don't think players have Calgary or Edmonton high on their list.

Indistinguishable as viewed from outsiders? Yeah I'm not buying that at all. That's like saying Hamilton and Ottawa are indistinguishable.

[moon]

Originally Posted by カナダ人です

Do the Jets and Oilers make good trade partners? Both teams could use a shake-up.

I don't think so.

The Jets have some mediocre poor, defensive defensemen similar to what the Oilers already have and I am not sure moving Kane to Edmonton does much to improve the Oilers.

I am sure the Jets would like to add one of Hall, Eberle, RNH to their forwards but can't see much that they would have that the Oilers would want back in return.

Schiefle and Kane are probably the closest things they would have but you would want one of the those 3 to play with Kane likely and Schiefle likely hasn't shown enough to be traded for one of those guys.

Both teams are in desperate need of goaltending so can't help each other out there.

[burn_baby_burn]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

Indistinguishable as viewed from outsiders? Yeah I'm not buying that at all. That's like saying Hamilton and Ottawa are indistinguishable.

Exactly! Most people outside of that region have probably never been to one or both of those cities. So they probably wouldn't know the difference.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by burn_baby_burn

I did that on purpose because everyone on this board acts like Edmonton is a hole, including myself (I live 90 minutes away and never go there outside of for work a couple times a year). But to anyone outside of Alberta, the differnece between Calgary and Edmonton is indistinguishable. How many UFA players has Calgary been able to attract over Edmonton recently? I don't think players have Calgary or Edmonton high on their list.

Purely anecdotal, but my wife recruits for a large international firm for both the Edmonton and Calgary markets (as well as Winnipeg). She has been absolutely amazed actually, at how differently they are perceived globally. She assumed going in that they would be viewed identically or at least similarly, but getting people to commit to Edmonton has been substantially harder than Calgary.

Calgary is viewed more as a world-class city and Edmonton appears not to be - rightly or wrongly (though of course, we know that it is rightly!).

Different than how North American hockey players are going to view the cities, of course. But for what it's worth, that is what she has found.

[Drunk Skunk]

Originally Posted by stampsx2

They are still bringing in huge revenue to the league even if they don't sell out every game. They have a strong following which helps with tv revenue, jersey sales etc. if teams like columbus and florida are around i'm sure the jets will be just fine.

I see more Jets merchandise here in Illinois than any other team, aside from the Blackhawks.

[Resolute 14]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Purely anecdotal, but my wife recruits for a large international firm for both the Edmonton and Calgary markets (as well as Winnipeg). She has been absolutely amazed actually, at how differently they are perceived globally. She assumed going in that they would be viewed identically or at least similarly, but getting people to commit to Edmonton has been substantially harder than Calgary.

Calgary is viewed more as a world-class city and Edmonton appears not to be - rightly or wrongly (though of course, we know that it is rightly!).

Different than how North American hockey players are going to view the cities, of course. But for what it's worth, that is what she has found.

A few years ago, the Washington Post (IIRC) sent a columnist out to write a feature story on Alberta's Oil and Gas industry. The writer planned to visit Calgary, Edmonton and Fort McMurray. He ended up having so much to write about Calgary that he didn't do much in Edmonton, and never even got up to Fort Mac. When the column came out, it was all glowing about Calgary, while Edmonton was relegated to a couple sentences that were basically "Edmonton, about 200 miles north of Calgary, is the blue collar center of the province." And my god were Edmontonians pissed when that story came out. It was a full-on orgy of inferiority complex.

That said, I have no real point to that story, because I don't think either your anecdote or mine really means a lot in the NHL context. As cities themselves, Calgary and Edmonton likely won't rate much different in most cases. A player who wants to play in a hockey mad city could choose either. One who likes to party would choose neither - We've got the better party, but Stampede runs in the off-season. The real difference between the two cities is likelihood of on-ice success.