[OOT] Melee between Toronto and Buffalo

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by TurnedTheCorner

I'll be surprised if Kessel gets over 2 games. Unwritten rules bla bla bla

The league takes a pretty dim view of stick work. And Kessel swinging from the shoulders on a slash and then throwing a cheap spear has nothing to do with the unwritten rules.

I figure he gets three well deserved games.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by stemit14

What an awesome game! Felt like 1994 again... While I don't like Scott going after kessel... I also don't like kessel poking the bea: he grabbed Scott and Scott immediately dropped the gloves. Kessel a reaction was to skate away and swing his stick at him - something else he shouldn't have done.

Kudos to Clarkson for jumping off the bench to help out his teammate who was being attacked by a giant. The whole team should have left the bench with him and the sabres should have done the same... If they did, Clarkson wouldn't get any suspension cause the league would not likely suspend 2 full line ups. Man, this makes me miss how great old time hockey was.

Not sure on the exact details, but I think an earlier poster said 10 games for 1st guy off bench, 5 games for second, and if it's the whole team it's a nasty fine...which I'm guessing comes from the player's pockets...does anyone have the official rule?

[powderjunkie]

Also, I think it's a bit of a punk move by Bernier. I can see why he did it - fans and teammates are going to love him now, but disrespectful to Miller. I imagine Scott will find himself planted in the crease next game...and he doesn't look too sturdy on those skates

[Kjesse]

Is there an angle which shows clearly if Kessel hit him with the second swing? I watched the video and wasn't sure if the random goon fell because of that or was already falling because of the melee. The best I can tell is Kessel tried to hit him low but might have just hit the skate blades.

Kessel's third strike was a spear according to the rule but its pretty clear it was to agitate not to injure. The third strike makes him look like a total coward.

The first strike he feared for his life, the second, he was carrying on like so many Vancouver rioters. Kind of like throwing a brick at a store window and missing. What's the penalty for that?

The Leafs lose this melee for the sole reason Clarkson is out 10 games. We'll see but the rest is likely not to matter that much. I could see Kessel getting a game or two, but sort of doubt it unless the second swing connected or if the league wants to send a message for what Kessel did a couple minutes later. Given his star status I doubt he gets much if anything.

The Leafs are going to be fun to watch this year, for the first time I'm excited to watch them, especially given I think the Senators have a lot of talent and its going to make for a great rivalry. Now we factor in this pre-season game and the ghetto to the south (I went to a Bills game, so I can comment with knowledge) and a story line is developing. I cheer for Buffalo over TO still though, at least for now.

[stemit14]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Also, I think it's a bit of a punk move by Bernier. I can see why he did it - fans and teammates are going to love him now, but disrespectful to Miller. I imagine Scott will find himself planted in the crease next game...and he doesn't look too sturdy on those skates

I think the leafs might have to bring in one of the super-heavy weights of the league if they want to send a message to a monster like Scott... There are only a few left in the NHL that could go up against him... Mcgrattan and Parros off the top of my head and I don't think either the flames or Canadians want to give them up.

[Hockey_Ninja]

Kessel never strikes me as the kind of guy who would spear people like that. Strange coming from him.

[TurnedTheCorner]

Originally Posted by CaptainCrunch

The league takes a pretty dim view of stick work. And Kessel swinging from the shoulders on a slash and then throwing a cheap spear has nothing to do with the unwritten rules.

I figure he gets three well deserved games.

I hope you're right.

[bax]

Can't believe people are ripping into Kessel for this. A guy who is only out there to fight tells a superstar "I'm going to jump you" what was Kessel supposed to do? Scott deserves more than some chops to his shin pads. Gutless by him, and people are saying that Kessel speared him? He tapped him with the blade of his stick, come on. Not a very smart thing to do if you're Kessel, but I have no problem with him embarrassing that goon even more.

[jd456]

I don't know who's in the right here. Personally, I've always hated stickwork. In a sport where players are actually allowed to fight, I've always seen stickwork as pretty cowardly. However at the same time, what else is Kessel supposed to do? Scott is arguably THE heavy weight in the league. It's pretty low for him to be targeting a star. Thankfully, I can't see McGrattan ever doing something like that. Also, I get Clarkson jumping in to protect his star, but in the end, what did he really accomplish? I've always liked the Sabres and its unfortunate Tropp got hurt in the fight before this, but if I have to defend a side on this one, it might have to be Kessel and the Leafs.

[theinfinitejar]

John Scott doesn't belong anywhere near professional hockey, if Kessel misses a single regular season game it would be a travesty.

[playmaker]

Old-time hockey is back ...

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Idiots like Scott are exactly why fighting shouldn't be in the game

Originally Posted by Resolute 14

No, idiots like Scott are why idiots like Scott shouldn't be in the game.

If there were no fighting in the game anymore, then idiots like Scott would no longer have any place in it, and would very abruptly disappear.

[stignasty]

I get why Kessel would swing the stick at the beginning, but to come in late and give that jab was too much.

Remember when the Red Wings were all over the Flames crease in the playoffs. Franzen had his stick inside Kipper's mask at one time. Of course the highlight reel never showed that, it showed Jamie McLennan swinging for the fence.

I think that's what's going to happen here. Kessel will get called on the carpet because the league will need to save face.

[GirlySports]

The NHL is clearly wrong trying to reduce fighting

[PlayfulGenius]

Originally Posted by stemit14

I think the leafs might have to bring in one of the super-heavy weights of the league if they want to send a message to a monster like Scott... There are only a few left in the NHL that could go up against him... Mcgrattan and Parros off the top of my head and I don't think either the flames or Canadians want to give them up.

Colton Orr could fight Scott...doesn't he still play for the leafs?

Scott is massive but he's not the best fighter...Orr would be fine, likely.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

There is definitely some brainwashing going on as to what is appropriate and not in an NHL game.

Stick swinging of any kind is heinous and the player should immediately be suspended...ok then.

Grabbing a star player to pound the ever-loving crap out of him is just "part of the game" and that player who was grabbed should "man-up" and fight back, or not do anything to defend himself otherwise. Sure

What you have to weigh is the intent to injure vs. the actual damage done. A slash at a giant goon's shin pads is not likely to injure him, especially as you're running as fast as you can the other direction. Neither is a tap into his hip pad as you're yelling at him about what just went down. The only play that may have actually hurt him is when Kessel slashed him in the back of the legs as he was already engaged with another player. Since Kessel was no longer in danger at that point, that was clearly an attempt to injure.

But then the only reason Scott was out there was to injure someone, and he picked the smallest player to fight who he would have absolutely destroyed if he actually got his hands on him. He even said "I'm going to jump you", so it was clear that's what he was out there to do. Now to me, Scott had the much bigger intent to injure and none of it would have occurred had he not grabbed the smallest player to fight. It was gutless.

For my money, Scott should take most of the blame and get the toughest suspension, even though technically his actions were not the most suspendible offense. He basically incited a riot, and it's plays like that the NHL needs to take a tough stance on to get this crap out of the game. You want to talk about an instigator penalty? This is the worst one I can think of and if they were serious about that rule they would boot Scott for 20 games.

Kessel deserves anything up to 5 games for the stupid stick-swinging stuff, but if Scott gets one game less than him it's a travesty of justice.

[savemedrzaius]

I've never seen Kessel do anything remotely dirty as a Leaf. I think this was more of a "I don't want to die" self-defence move. No suspension.

[driveway]

"Old time hockey" means hockey without fights, goonery, line-brawls, and vicious slashes. Anyone who has ever actually seen Slapshot would know this. I suppose when there are a bunch of kids barely into their twenties extolling the virtues of hockey they've never actually seen, that's too much to expect.

I hate friggin' fighting in hockey. It's idiotic. Clarkson will get his deserved 10, 3 preseason and 7 regular season. Kessel will get no more than 3 and not miss any regular season games.

[savemedrzaius]

Originally Posted by driveway

"Old time hockey" means hockey without fights, goonery, line-brawls, and vicious slashes. Anyone who has ever actually seen Slapshot would know this. I suppose when there are a bunch of kids barely into their twenties extolling the virtues of hockey they've never actually seen, that's too much to expect.

I hate friggin' fighting in hockey. It's idiotic. Clarkson will get his deserved 10, 3 preseason and 7 regular season. Kessel will get no more than 3 and not miss any regular season games.

You are in Taipei? I'm in Guangzhou! Did you get hit hard by the typhoon? It barely even hit us here.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by driveway

I hate friggin' fighting in hockey. It's idiotic. Clarkson will get his deserved 10, 3 preseason and 7 regular season. Kessel will get no more than 3 and not miss any regular season games.

This is all the more idiotic when factoring in that Scott will get nothing beyond time served. 5 mins for fighting, a 10 min misconduct, and an additional + 2 for instigating. Two impact players will miss significant, meaningful game-time for responding to verbal and physical threats from a roster-member whose ONLY purpose is to promote physical and psychological intimidation.

Buffalo should be laughing all the way to the bank with this result, and it only serves to emphasise how lopsided and backwards the NHL is with regards to the place and purpose of violence in sports.