What could Calgary do to move up in the draft rankings to acquire Nathan MacKinnon?

[mustache ride]

I guess the only thing to do is to draft at six and not screw up the tank next year.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Agree to disagree.

But I believe Sven is a top 10 prospect in the league - meaning that at most 1/3rd of the league has a guy like him.

I don't think I tend to over-value prospects - but I've been a fan of Sven pre-draft (if you go back and check I said he was the guy the Flames should pick).

And yes I think the rest of the league is salivating over him. He instantly would become the #1 prospect in most organizations.

Time will tell I suppose, but I predict he will be an all-star in the league.

I don't think he's top 10. Top 20 maybe but not top 10. He's very skilled for sure. I think he will need to be paired with a big, skilled center to become an all-star as I don't see him as an Iginla type winger that can carry a team. I think his upside is a maybe a bit better Mike Cammalleri in his prime which is nothing to sneeze at but as always time will tell.

[oldschoolcalgary]

i am praying to the hockey gods that we don't do something foolish with our picks this year...

With respect to trading up, i'd pass, opting to keep all of our picks rather than move up...Calgary needs all the players it can gather. One player isn't going to be enough - even Crosby wouldn't be able to beat the Islanders on his own.

just look at Boston; Seguin is playing well, but the assassin on that team against Toronto? Second round pick David Krecji.

That's why you don't trade picks.

[Geeoff]

Originally Posted by Hockey_Ninja

We are weakest at C RW and D. We've added a lot of goaltender depth with McDonald, Berra, Ramo, Brossoit and Orito and our top 2 prospects (Baertschi and Gaudreau) are LW's. Not to mention we have Cammalleri, Tanguay, Hudler and Glencross who are all naturally LW's. We HAVE to take a center with the 6th pick.

Cammalleri and Tanguay are not in our long-term plans and possibly not in our short-term plans. If they get traded, we have no 1st-line players at any position.

[mustache ride]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

I don't think he's top 10. Top 20 maybe but not top 10.

Depends on what the cutoff for still being a prospect is. Entry level deals? Arbitrary game number? Is Seguin still a prospect? Couturier? Brodie has over a hundred games, is he still a prospect.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

i am praying to the hockey gods that we don't do something foolish with our picks this year...

With respect to trading up, i'd pass, opting to keep all of our picks rather than move up...Calgary needs all the players it can gather. One player isn't going to be enough - even Crosby wouldn't be able to beat the Islanders on his own.

just look at Boston; Seguin is playing well, but the assassin on that team against Toronto? Second round pick David Krecji.

That's why you don't trade picks.

I agree with this. Most of the key pieces of the Bruins Cup contending/winning team were snagged with second and third round picks. That's why it irritates me greatly when people claim you can only draft elite talent with top five draft picks, and that the Flames should be aiming for the gutter because of that claim.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by mustache ride

Depends on what the cutoff for still being a prospect is. Entry level deals? Arbitrary game number? Is Seguin still a prospect? Couturier? Brodie has over a hundred games, is he still a prospect.

If you are an nhler like those guys you aren't a prospect. So right now who would people rank above Sven?
Hf has him at ten in a list that includes guys like Hamilton, tarasenko, yakupov, Schultz, etc above him

I think thn had him in a similar spot.

I have a hard time seeing how he's not top ten

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I agree with this. Most of the key pieces of the Bruins Cup contending/winning team were snagged with second and third round picks. That's why it irritates me greatly when people claim you can only draft elite talent with top five draft picks, and that the Flames should be aiming for the gutter because of that claim.

Now, granted, there is luck involved, but that's why you need to increase picks, not decrease them... there are a lot of great players drafted later. Sure, its definitely more of a crap shoot, but Stanley Cup teams are built through the draft, so you need to accumulate picks.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

Now, granted, there is luck involved, but that's why you need to increase picks, not decrease them... there are a lot of great players drafted later. Sure, its definitely more of a crap shoot, but Stanley Cup teams are built through the draft, so you need to accumulate picks.

Agreed again. Nice that the Flames currently have 9 picks for this years draft....that's the most they've had for a draft since before the 2004/05 lockout when the draft was still nine rounds.

No second rounders mind you, but three first rounders. Like you said, keep them all and throw as much mud against the wall as possible.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If you are an nhler like those guys you aren't a prospect. So right now who would people rank above Sven?
Hf has him at ten in a list that includes guys like Hamilton, tarasenko, yakupov, Schultz, etc above him

I think thn had him in a similar spot.

I have a hard time seeing how he's not top ten

The last 3 lists I have seen all had him 8th or 9th, though I haven't seen one in a while.

Somewhere around 10 is about right, IMO.

[mustache ride]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Hf has him at ten in a list that includes guys like Hamilton, tarasenko, yakupov, Schultz, etc above him

I think thn had him in a similar spot.

I have a hard time seeing how he's not top ten

Every team except Van, i think, has a player that they project to where we think Sven projects to. Not franchise but the new blood to carry the team. It's all fan bias. We overrate our players and underrate others. After the first few cant miss prospects at the top of your list, it stops being numerical. There is no solid #7 or #10. There is just 25 or so guys that should make an impact in the league. Is there a difference between Yakupov and Tarasenko? No. They both look like first line forwards that should have decent careers. Is there a difference between Hamilton and Seth Jones? No. Just two D that should be the leaders of their teams at some point in the future. But the original point to this thread was that championship teams now build down the middle. It's the way it is. So if you have a shot at a building around an elite center vs a winger, dman or goalie, you build around the center. And there is nothing in this organization that i would not trade (minus future draft picks) for a shot a Mackinnon.

[kyuss275]

I'm not sure i would include Sven in a deal to get MacKinnon. That said, posters do need to realise this is not the only draft that we are going to have a good pick. Next year the flames will be picking top 5, and that's me being nice. Really see them in the top 2.

If for some reason Florida would do a trade for #2 for all 3 first round picks i would not hesitate. MacKinnon, Sven and next years top 3 pick will be a great start.

[Vulcan]

For me the time to move up in the draft was the last month of the season but we didn't tank well enough. Now I'd just let sleeping dogs lie.

[T@T]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

I'm not sure i would include Sven in a deal to get MacKinnon. That said, posters do need to realise this is not the only draft that we are going to have a good pick. Next year the flames will be picking top 5, and that's me being nice. Really see them in the top 2.

If for some reason Florida would do a trade for #2 for all 3 first round picks i would not hesitate. MacKinnon, Sven and next years top 3 pick will be a great start.

I would do any player on the roster with our 6th and last 1st rounder not named Sven, MacKinnon will be a very special player.

I would trade 6th,late 1st and brodie in a second for MacKinnon, Flames may never get another chance for this type of player.

[Oil Stain]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

If you are an nhler like those guys you aren't a prospect. So right now who would people rank above Sven?
Hf has him at ten in a list that includes guys like Hamilton, tarasenko, yakupov, Schultz, etc above him

I think thn had him in a similar spot.

I have a hard time seeing how he's not top ten

Well if you believe the hype about this draft then you would have to say Sven would slot behind Mackinnon, Druoin, Jones, Barkov, Nichushkin, and Lindholm.

McDavid from the year after.

Kuznetsov. Gotta say Ryan Murray don't you?

Has Baertschi passed guys like Strome and Scheifele? Hard to say at this point. He's older and was in the AHL a year earlier as a result so you can't really do a direct comparison.

I guess he would be in the mix for top ten if you don't include guys that played their rookie season this year but played more games then Sven. The Yakupovs and Galchenyuks.

Other 1992s's that put up equally impressive stats in the AHL this season:

Ryan Spooner
Tyler Toffoli
Jason Zucker
Jamie Oleksiak

Pretty much impossible to say which of these players is going to end up the best down the road. I would say Sven is a very good prospect, but I'm unconvinced he is instantly number #1 in most orgs. Wild fans for example probably wouldn't trade Brodin for him at this point.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by mustache ride

Every team except Van, i think, has a player that they project to where we think Sven projects to. Not franchise but the new blood to carry the team. It's all fan bias. We overrate our players and underrate others. After the first few cant miss prospects at the top of your list, it stops being numerical. There is no solid #7 or #10. There is just 25 or so guys that should make an impact in the league. Is there a difference between Yakupov and Tarasenko? No. They both look like first line forwards that should have decent careers. Is there a difference between Hamilton and Seth Jones? No. Just two D that should be the leaders of their teams at some point in the future. But the original point to this thread was that championship teams now build down the middle. It's the way it is. So if you have a shot at a building around an elite center vs a winger, dman or goalie, you build around the center. And there is nothing in this organization that i would not trade (minus future draft picks) for a shot a Mackinnon.

Again disagree. There are a ton of teams that don't have a prospect of his calibre. It's not fan bias, I follow prospects a lot and I think overall am pretty objective.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by Oil Stain

Well if you believe the hype about this draft then you would have to say Sven would slot behind Mackinnon, Druoin, Jones, Barkov, Nichushkin, and Lindholm.

McDavid from the year after.

Kuznetsov. Gotta say Ryan Murray don't you?

Has Baertschi passed guys like Strome and Scheifele? Hard to say at this point. He's older and was in the AHL a year earlier as a result so you can't really do a direct comparison.

I guess he would be in the mix for top ten if you don't include guys that played their rookie season this year but played more games then Sven. The Yakupovs and Galchenyuks.

Other 1992s's that put up equally impressive stats in the AHL this season:

Ryan Spooner
Tyler Toffoli
Jason Zucker
Jamie Oleksiak

Pretty much impossible to say which of these players is going to end up the best down the road. I would say Sven is a very good prospect, but I'm unconvinced he is instantly number #1 in most orgs. Wild fans for example probably wouldn't trade Brodin for him at this point.

Sure but Brodin isn't a prospect anymore is he. I take Sven over those other 92s easily, it's about more than stats it's about skill evaluation and projection. Murray is valid but I've never been a fan, I think the leafs got the best dman from the draft

[mustache ride]

Well if you eliminate anyone with more success than Sven, I guess he is the best prospect in the league then. If Brodin doesnt count then no one else does really either. The difference between them is 20 games. I don't mean that to be as rude as it sounds but your being unreasonable with your criteria.

[Mr.Coffee]

Agree with Jiri on Sven, Baertschi's the real deal. He's going to be one of the best in the league one day. He just plays the game so confidently, and he just is so skilled. I'm excited about our future.

[PlayfulGenius]

I've mentioned this in another thread...

Everyone is talking about this draft being really deep, but there doesn't appear to be any Generational-type player... Like Crosby, Ovechkin or even Stamkos.

So, it would seem to be the ideal way to leverage this draft would be to have multiple picks. The Flames are positioned as well as any team for this draft... In fact, one would have to argue they're positioned the best of all 30 teams.

If the Flames traded all picks for #2, it no longer becomes the Flames advantage how deep this draft is... I say use roster players to move picks up the draft, but make sure to remain with at least 3 picks in the first round.