The Democratic Presidential Nomination 2020

[corporatejay]

Duffman, it's like you're the living embodiment of everything Cliff and Girly are trying to say, and yet here you are, and you keep doubling down.

Not everyone who likes trump is a white supremacist.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Accept all views. Debate them. And break them down.

I don't think you and I agree on the meaning of "accept". And no, I don't feel like debating, say, a flat earther. Or a Nazi for that matter.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Not everyone who likes trump is a white supremacist.

Agreed, but Trump himself has proven he sympathizes with white supremacists...

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

How is that a rebuttal or response to what Corporatejay posted?

[DFO]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Duffman, it's like you're the living embodiment of everything Cliff and Girly are trying to say, and yet here you are, and you keep doubling down.

Not everyone who likes trump is a white supremacist.

The remaining supporters are just amoral much like Trump. What else could it be if they brush aside all of Trump's actions so far?

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think you and I agree on the meaning of "accept". And no, I don't feel like debating, say, a flat earther. Or a Nazi for that matter.

Yeah, “accept” suggests that all views are acceptable, and if they are, why in the world would you bother debating them or trying to break them down?

All views are NOT acceptable, but the expression of them is certainly acceptable, as that provides the platform for debate.

That said, debate seems fairly useless outside academic circles. Life experience with positive representations of differing views seems like the only thing that’s truly effective.

[Muta]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

How is that a rebuttal or response to what Corporatejay posted?

It isn't. Trump is still racist AF though. Never forget.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Duffman, it's like you're the living embodiment of everything Cliff and Girly are trying to say, and yet here you are, and you keep doubling down.

Not everyone who likes trump is a white supremacist.

I believe what DuffMan was getting at is that the alternative to whomever is the Democratic nominee, and whatever misgivings we may have about them and warts they may carry, the alternative is absolutely gruesome.

Doesn’t help that polls after the last election showed that xenophobic views were
not just one of but rather the preeminent predictor of a Trump voter.

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

I believe what DuffMan was getting at is that the alternative to whomever is the Democratic nominee, and whatever misgivings we may have about them and warts they may carry, the alternative is absolutely gruesome.

Yes. We know. No one has suggested otherwise, and to continually point out things that no one disagrees with is irritating. Whoever the Democrats nominate will be the better option, even if they are merely the lesser of two evils. Pretty much all of us agree.

In a circumstance like that, the primary concern is therefore nominating someone who will win. The topic of discussion over the past couple of pages has been about how the Democrats appear poised to shoot themselves in the foot in that regard. Pointing out "well but Trump is even worse", ad nauseum, is stupid and pointless.

[AltaGuy]

Fair enough: who do you believe has the best chance of beating Trump? And - I assume - they’d also be your choice for the nomination?

[CorsiHockeyLeague]

Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown.

Unfortunately.

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

The Democrats are a coalition. But the social elites in the party (and in America as a whole) have become so homegenous in their beliefs, and spend so much of their time in their bubbles, that they've begun to act as though they have consensus on a host of issues. There aren't enough educated, liberal, white, urban voters who watch Jimmy Kimmel and devote 7 hours a week to sharing how much they hate Trump to win a general election.

Kinda like how the Tea Party and Trumpers hijacked the GOP while the so-called moderates just went along for the ride? I'm pretty sure that's exactly the strategy the Democrats are going because they've seen it be successful for the other side. The problem is that a good chunk of leftists and left-leaning centrists have demonstrated that they'll bail and either vote for a third-party or not vote at all if the Democrats don't produce a palatable candidate while Republicans have demonstrated they'll hold their noses and vote along party lines regardless of who's been nominated.

[Nyah]

Originally Posted by AltaGuy

Fair enough: who do you believe has the best chance of beating Trump? And - I assume - they’d also be your choice for the nomination?

Just based on my opinion from the conversations I've had with friends and family in the US: Joe Biden would be more of a return to the "norm" and therefore a less scary vote for a lot of people than someone really far left like Bernie. I like a lot of Bernie's ideas, but I feel like a massive swing in the other direction isn't really what people want right now. They all just some normalcy in their daily politics again. I think Biden is a safe vote, and Sanders would be a more radical vote right now.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by CorsiHockeyLeague

Ohio Sen. Sherrod Brown.

Unfortunately.

Thank you - the thread has been rather light on discussions of the options.

I believe it will be either Biden or Bernie. Both have the problem that they're really old.

And though I doubt he'll be nominated, I really like Buttigieg.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by Nyah

Just based on my opinion from the conversations I've had with friends and family in the US: Joe Biden would be more of a return to the "norm" and therefore a less scary vote for a lot of people than someone really far left like Bernie. I like a lot of Bernie's ideas, but I feel like a massive swing in the other direction isn't really what people want right now. They all just some normalcy in their daily politics again. I think Biden is a safe vote, and Sanders would be a more radical vote right now.

Yeah - Biden faces the problem that he'll be seen by the progressive wing as a return to the HRC, Democratic party elite: an elite that lost. He's also got the touchy thing problem, but I don't see that affecting him in the general.

Bernie has the grassroots support, but faces real problems among centrists and moderates. But, polls seem to like him in key rust-belt states.

I do believe it comes down to those two.

[CliffFletcher]

I'm not even talking about winning Trump voters over. I'm talking about appealing to the large percentage of Democrats who don't watch the Daily Show or fret over the portrayal of transgendered people in entertainment. Working-class and visible minority Democrats who don't consider themselves part of a Resistance, and who may dislike Trump but don't regard melting down over his tweets 24/7 to be much of a platform.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by rubecube

Kinda like how the Tea Party and Trumpers hijacked the GOP while the so-called moderates just went along for the ride? I'm pretty sure that's exactly the strategy the Democrats are going because they've seen it be successful for the other side. The problem is that a good chunk of leftists and left-leaning centrists have demonstrated that they'll bail and either vote for a third-party or not vote at all if the Democrats don't produce a palatable candidate while Republicans have demonstrated they'll hold their noses and vote along party lines regardless of who's been nominated.

The dynamics are totally different with Democrats vs Republicans. Republicans will still vote even if they aren't particularly fond of a candidate, because they're old and old people always vote. If Democrats don't like a candidate they stay home on election night.

[AltaGuy]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I'm not even talking about winning Trump voters over. I'm talking about appealing to the large percentage of Democrats who don't watch the Daily Show or fret over the portrayal of transgendered people in entertainment. Working-class and visible minority Democrats who don't consider themselves part of a Resistance, and who may dislike Trump but don't regard melting down over his tweets 24/7 to be much of a platform.

So... who do you like?

[rubecube]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

I'm not even talking about winning Trump voters over. I'm talking about appealing to the large percentage of Democrats who don't watch the Daily Show or fret over the portrayal of transgendered people in entertainment. Working-class and visible minority Democrats who don't consider themselves part of a Resistance, and who may dislike Trump but don't regard melting down over his tweets 24/7 to be much of a platform.

Honestly the only planks they really need to run on to appeal to the majority of their voters is single-payer health care, jobs, and reducing wealth disparity. Everything else should just be window-dressing.

[DuffMan]

Originally Posted by corporatejay

Duffman, it's like you're the living embodiment of everything Cliff and Girly are trying to say, and yet here you are, and you keep doubling down.

Not everyone who likes trump is a white supremacist.

I just find the argument that "Liberals are mean to magas", stupid.