Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[Ozy_Flame]

People want to halt oil and gas projects until taxpayers can be assured they're not on the hook for costly cleanups?

Tsk tsk.

As Ron Leipert would say, "Stop Grandstanding".

[gasman]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Not over contributing imo.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/site...ion-to-cpp.pdf

What am I missing, is the contribution by province even a relevant stat? Other than farmers I would thing a lot of people retire outside of Alberta - Heading to BC, or back home out East. So wouldn't that lend to the "overcontribution"

I for one have absolutely no intention to spend 1 minute of my retirement in Alberta. But I will likely pay 30 years of max CPP payments "as an Albertan"

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by gasman

What am I missing, is the contribution by province even a relevant stat? Other than farmers I would thing a lot of people retire outside of Alberta - Heading to BC, or back home out East. So wouldn't that lend to the "overcontribution"

I for one have absolutely no intention to spend 1 minute of my retirement in Alberta. But I will likely pay 30 years of max CPP payments "as an Albertan"

It's about as relevent as people who bitch about equalization payments "stealing money from Alberta". It's a federal program using federal funds and it happens that based on our jurisdiction demographics today makes it an easy strawman that "Albertans pay more".

But it is no different than saying Urban Canadians should have a different pension plan than Rural Canadians because they are younger so they are paying more than they should.

So lets have a referendum on the CEPP (Calgary Edmonton Pension Plan) to be separate from the APP.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by gasman

What am I missing, is the contribution by province even a relevant stat? Other than farmers I would thing a lot of people retire outside of Alberta - Heading to BC, or back home out East. So wouldn't that lend to the "overcontribution"

I for one have absolutely no intention to spend 1 minute of my retirement in Alberta. But I will likely pay 30 years of max CPP payments "as an Albertan"

This is the problem, they are conflating regional demographics with personal finances. We pay more federal tax because we have more high income earners, we collect less CPP because we have less old people. Neither of those facts mean we are getting screwed as individuals, as a 30something Albertan making $100K I would collect just as much CPP ($0) and pay just as much federal tax (a little over $15,000) as a guy in Ontario, I personally am not experiencing any harm based on by paying federal tax and pensions in Alberta vs someone in Ontario. The harm comes from the idea that Alberta could keep all of the benefits of confederation as a separate entity without contributing to it proportionately to it's population demographics, which is basically in line with most modern right wing economic ideology of eating the cake then complaining that there is no cake, to think that as a little independent land locked state of 5 million people that we could maintain the economic advantage we have seen over the past 40 years is a laughable premise, Alberta does get something out of confederation and Alberta does need to contribute to confederation in return.

[iggy_oi]

I guess their logic would suggest that as a home owner who pays more in property taxes than a renter I must be getting screwed since I still have to use the same roads they do instead of some more expensive better ones.

[Mr.Coffee]

The other issue Albertans forget is that eventually one day Alberta is going to be a have not province and other provinces are going to have to support Alberta. It will happen. We will need the rest of Canada's support.

[Wormius]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The other issue Albertans forget is that eventually one day Alberta is going to be a have not province and other provinces are going to have to support Alberta. It will happen. We will need the rest of Canada's support.

Enter Yoho with a “The Trudeau government is making Alberta a have-not province” quip in 3.. 2..

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The other issue Albertans forget is that eventually one day Alberta is going to be a have not province and other provinces are going to have to support Alberta. It will happen. We will need the rest of Canada's support.

That’s when it will be quickly ratified.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Yoho

That’s when it will be quickly ratified.

So what you’re saying is everyone is out to get us?

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

So what you’re saying is everyone is out to get us?

Everyone can pay their fair share. It won’t change unless referendum anyway which I honestly doubt would pass.

[Cardi C]

Here is a good post from CanREA on what regulations, policies, and community best practices are already in place for renewable tech deployment on an individual's land. I've worked closely with a company deploying 5 solar projects and they want to fully integrate into the local, business, and government community to ensure all stakeholders needs are met. I know there are bad players out there and these projects are changing hands quickly. I hope this pause is to better mature the renewable industry and not politically motivated.

https://renewablesassociation.ca/the...egulated-west/

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by iggy_oi

So what you’re saying is everyone is out to get us?

To a degree and from the lens of an oil and gas worker, is it that hard to empathize / understand why people may hold this view?

Further, is it even wrong?

[Spurs]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

To a degree and from the lens of an oil and gas worker, is it that hard to empathize / understand why people may hold this view?

Further, is it even wrong?

Yes and yes

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by Spurs

Yes and yes

Disagree

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

The other issue Albertans forget is that eventually one day Alberta is going to be a have not province and other provinces are going to have to support Alberta. It will happen. We will need the rest of Canada's support.

I wouldn't be so sure. BC, Ontario, & Alberta are the economic engines of the country and ultimately where the major cities are. Under their own inertia they drive the bar at which 'have' and 'have not' are measured and by definition will be difficult to find themselves be structurally below the line. It's a possibility but not an eventuality.

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

To a degree and from the lens of an oil and gas worker, is it that hard to empathize / understand why people may hold this view?

Further, is it even wrong?

Seriously Mr.Coffee this is part of the problem, you seem to only ever look at it through that lens.

Would you seriously argue that in this province oil and gas workers are having a worse time right now than people who have been working in the renewable energy sector that the UCP just pulled the plug on? And that the people who bought and built a pipeline at a ridiculously high cost that will earn billions of dollars for O&G are out to get that industry?

Stop buying the propaganda. Yes there are some policies that need to be fixed to help our oil and gas industry thrive as the important economic driver for our country that it is but at the end of the day the oil and gas industry has the financial resources to publicly campaign against pretty much anything that affects their bottom line. So they do, regardless of whether or not the legislation is sensible or detrimental to other industries or workers in general and for some reason a lot of people just believe everything they tell them.

I can empathize with O&G workers who have had a much rougher go lately than they did during the boom times without agreeing that they’ve somehow been treated worse than anyone else. They don’t deserve to be caught up in the crossfire and neither do people working in other industries.

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Cardi C

Here is a good post from CanREA on what regulations, policies, and community best practices are already in place for renewable tech deployment on an individual's land. I've worked closely with a company deploying 5 solar projects and they want to fully integrate into the local, business, and government community to ensure all stakeholders needs are met. I know there are bad players out there and these projects are changing hands quickly. I hope this pause is to better mature the renewable industry and not politically motivated.

https://renewablesassociation.ca/the...egulated-west/

It's Danielle Smith and the UCP. which do you honestly think it could be?

[Geraldsh]

Originally Posted by Cardi C

Here is a good post from CanREA on what regulations, policies, and community best practices are already in place for renewable tech deployment on an individual's land. I've worked closely with a company deploying 5 solar projects and they want to fully integrate into the local, business, and government community to ensure all stakeholders needs are met. I know there are bad players out there and these projects are changing hands quickly. I hope this pause is to better mature the renewable industry and not politically motivated.

https://renewablesassociation.ca/the...egulated-west/

I wonder if anyone in the UCP party has read that report? It appears to already answer the questions they are taking 7 months to ask.

[belsarius]

Originally Posted by Geraldsh

I wonder if anyone in the UCP party has read that report? It appears to already answer the questions they are taking 7 months to ask.

Perhaps if it was put into 144 characters and posted to social media. Then they could "do their own research".

[timun]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I mean, one industry drives the Local, Provincial and Federal economies and the other is an alternative energy source that barely offsets minimal electrical needs of the province, but sure.

I am not saying that I don't agree, accountability on the Oil and Gas side is an ongoing requirement and should be a focus of any government. but lets be realistic.

I absolutely despise this line of thinking. The enmity I have for this thinking cannot be put into words.

#### the oil & gas industry. #### 'em for ever convincing people that they're soooooooooo "important to the economy" that they can get away with whatever the hell they want. They get billions in tax breaks, they pollute our environment almost entirely without consequence: it's completely and totally ####ed.

Let's be realistic? Reality is the O&G industry SHOULD clean up its mess, and our governments should not be giving them a pass like they have for the last 110 years, but REALISTICALLY they have the money to buy the political clout to get away with murder, and the "renewable" energy industry doesn't.