Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[White Out 403]

a UCP created APP? Why the #### don't we just take all our collective money to Vegas and play blackjack. Jesus tap dancing christ.

[bizaro86]

Originally Posted by BlackArcher101

But isn't it the case that the amount you get depends on how much you've paid into it? I don't see the unfairness.

That's true, but it's also true that the amount you pay in is quite a bit higher than it would otherwise need to be if prior generations had put enough away to cover their own bill. Since Alberta has less people who promised themselves a pension without paying for it, our share of that burden is lower.

[GGG]

Originally Posted by bizaro86

That's true, but it's also true that the amount you pay in is quite a bit higher than it would otherwise need to be if prior generations had put enough away to cover their own bill. Since Alberta has less people who promised themselves a pension without paying for it, our share of that burden is lower.

When CPP is considered a funded pension plan are they saying that the contributions made by people in the program today are sufficient to pay those people out or does it rely on future people to continue paying on and the population to grow by enough?

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by White Out 403

a UCP created APP? Why the #### don't we just take all our collective money to Vegas and play blackjack. Jesus tap dancing christ.

Of all of the items the UCP is putting forth, this is likely the least threatening. It would likely be AIMCO who would manage the APP. They are a quality outfit and would likely do a good job as they currently do managing public sector pension money in Alberta.

https://www.aimco.ca/

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Of all of the items the UCP is putting forth, this is likely the least threatening. It would likely be AIMCO who would manage the APP. They are a quality outfit and would likely do a good job as they currently do managing public sector pension money in Alberta.

https://www.aimco.ca/

yeah. like the loss just a couple of years ago of 2.1 Billion from their volatility-based investment program. Plus I've read the returns from AIMCO lagged compared to other pension investment funds by 1.5%
Not to long ago the LAPP said he fund has failed reach the plan’s value-added expectations for 47 consecutive quarters.

yeah, like I want my pension managed worse than everyone else's.

I'll stick with the government of Canada over the UCP, thank you very much.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by GordonBlue

yeah. like the loss just a couple of years ago of 2.1 Billion from their volatility-based investment program. Plus I've read the returns from AIMCO lagged compared to other pension investment funds by 1.5%
Not to long ago the LAPP said he fund has failed reach the plan’s value-added expectations for 47 consecutive quarters.

yeah, like I want my pension managed worse than everyone else's.

I'll stick with the government of Canada over the UCP, thank you very much.

Well we’ll see if the rest of Alberta thinks that way in a referendum.

[Slava]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Well we’ll see if the rest of Alberta thinks that way in a referendum.

I'm curious to see the "pro" arguments. Aside from the fact that AIMCO is fine and does a good job, what advantages are being proposed? All I see is "Quebec does it", and really I just don't care.

[Ozy_Flame]

I have a strong feeling the majority of Albertans are not going to do any research beforehand on both the CPP and AIMCO, and the UCP wont give them anything useful except anti-Ottawa talking points. Hell, even the question will be framed as "How much do you want an APP" and the answers will be "HELL YES" and "Very much, thank you!"

[btimbit]

Since the only reason I've seen for an Alberta Pension Plan is "Freedom! Separate our money from the Feds!" Can I just be even more free and opt out entirely?

[Red Slinger]

^ Exactly. What problem is this aiming to fix? Or is it just more ideologically driven, fact-free nonsense (he asked knowingly).

[Canadianman]

Don't you all remember what happened the last time we had a solar leak??

[calf]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Since the only reason I've seen for an Alberta Pension Plan is "Freedom! Separate our money from the Feds!" Can I just be even more free and opt out entirely?

I wonder how it affects mobility...like, what happens if I get transferred to Ontario, or someone is choosing between moving to Alberta or BC? Can the pensions be ported? Or does having smaller cumulative contributions into two plans result in lower payouts?

[Roughneck]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm curious to see the "pro" arguments. Aside from the fact that AIMCO is fine and does a good job, what advantages are being proposed? All I see is "Quebec does it", and really I just don't care.

AIMCO is fine and a does a good job relative to what? The only thing that is relevant is if they’re better than the CPPIB.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by calf

I wonder how it affects mobility...like, what happens if I get transferred to Ontario, or someone is choosing between moving to Alberta or BC? Can the pensions be ported? Or does having smaller cumulative contributions into two plans result in lower payouts?

I think I read we'd end up with 2 pensions, one from the before times(CPP) and one for after. If you move, you stop paying into the APP, but when you retire you still get payed out your entitlement from it, along with whatever you contribute to CPP from the before times and after you move.

[Yoho]

Originally Posted by Slava

I'm curious to see the "pro" arguments. Aside from the fact that AIMCO is fine and does a good job, what advantages are being proposed? All I see is "Quebec does it", and really I just don't care.

Not over contributing imo.

https://www.fraserinstitute.org/site...ion-to-cpp.pdf

[Wastedyouth]

From the RMA and Rural Municipalities end, a common concern is the affect that solar farms have on useable farm land.

It's become a bogeyman and not something I support. But I do understand where some of the concern is.

https://craven.ces.ncsu.edu/2021/10/...d-to-farmland/

This article typically covers most of the concerns of rural voters and the worry about the building of solar farms on useable farm land.

In the end, if its your land, you should get to put up a solar farm if you want to.

But I think rural voters just want more information and are worried about long term impact to land and future food sources.

[timun]

Originally Posted by Roughneck

AIMCO is fine and a does a good job relative to what? The only thing that is relevant is if they’re better than the CPPIB.

They're not.

Spoiler!

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

From the RMA and Rural Municipalities end, a common concern is the affect that solar farms have on useable farm land.

It's become a bogeyman and not something I support. But I do understand where some of the concern is.

https://craven.ces.ncsu.edu/2021/10/...d-to-farmland/

This article typically covers most of the concerns of rural voters and the worry about the building of solar farms on useable farm land.

In the end, if its your land, you should get to put up a solar farm if you want to.

But I think rural voters just want more information and are worried about long term impact to land and future food sources.

Why not also pause oil and gas projects until we can confirm taxpayers aren't on the hook for toxic cleanup cost that affect farmland? It's it possibly because this is all ideological?

[Wastedyouth]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

Why not also pause oil and gas projects until we can confirm taxpayers aren't on the hook for toxic cleanup cost that affect farmland? It's it possibly because this is all ideological?

I mean, one industry drives the Local, Provincial and Federal economies and the other is an alternative energy source that barely offsets minimal electrical needs of the province, but sure.

I am not saying that I don't agree, accountability on the Oil and Gas side is an ongoing requirement and should be a focus of any government. but lets be realistic.

[Fuzz]

Originally Posted by Wastedyouth

I mean, one industry drives the Local, Provincial and Federal economies and the other is an alternative energy source that barely offsets minimal electrical needs of the province, but sure.

I am not saying that I don't agree, accountability on the Oil and Gas side is an ongoing requirement and should be a focus of any government. but lets be realistic.

I'm not saying they should pause it, just that that would at least be logically consistent. There is no urgent need to pause anything, they can work out plans while still approving installations. As you mention, it's such a small thing relative to the damage currently being done by O&G.