I had a teacher in grade 5 who lost it one day and slammed a kid's head into the desk. Got fired over it. I wonder what may have happened if he had a gun. I also saw a student get into a fist fight with a teacher in high school.
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Typically the number of kids who die by violence in school is 15-30 per year in the whole country. I can't help but think arming teachers would multiply that number by 10 or more. I don't really think it will happen, except in a couple of the crazy states.
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I'll preface this by saying I have no idea how reputable this website is and that I have not spent the time to fact check their numbers. From a Canadian point of view the numbers seem accurate. If it turns out they are not, I'll delete.
Quote:
School shootings are considered by many to be an epidemic in the United States, as is gun violence in general. According to data from Everytown Research, the United States averaged just over 87 school shootings each year from 2013 to 2021, resulting in an annual average of 28.4 dead and 59.6 wounded. A 2018 CNN feature used slightly tighter criteria and tallied a comparatively lower 288 school shootings in the United States between 2009 and 2018—however, the country with the second-most school shootings during that period, Mexico, experienced only eight shootings during that same time period.
Many have said it, but the US is simply broken in this regard. Debating about arming teachers is asinine. The answer is simple. They won't do it. It's unbelievable and unbelievably sad. "American Dream" has become laughable.
Why school shootings in general I wonder? Once the guy shot his grandmother why was this school the next target? Was it close? It's not like Columbine or Parkland where he attended that school, those kids are 9. Why not his high school? or his employment? or a mall? or wherever else?
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What I read was the police called out and asked if anyone needed help and then the kid got shot when he answered - which is a particularly terrible strategy if you don't have control of the situation.
A boatload of kids got killed - waiting around was a terrible move. Its also against the findings after Columbine about how to respond.
IARD, the strategy developed in response to Columbine, was deployed. That was the initial firefight between the couple of first responders who immediately engaged with the shooter when they arrived on scene, four minutes after Ramos entered the school.
Previously they would have waited for SWAT before entering the school and exchanging gunfire. Why it failed in this case might be poor training, cowardice or just bad luck, but all signs point to it being deployed (unless the story changes again).
When it failed, when the shooter had barricaded himself in, this is when the immediate action rapid deployment strategy ends. It became a shift from active shooter to barricade gunman.
The first couple of officers could be criticized for their failures, though I would tend to simply blame the shooter, but those who came after he had barricaded himself in the classroom and had not fired for the reported 30 minutes, would be foolish to use a strategy that was designed for a completely different situation.
Far too many children got killed but not while the police were waiting outside for SWAT, equipment, backup and negotiators as far as I'm aware. They were shot moments after he entered the classroom.
Completely different ballgame if they were hearing him shooting another victim every couple of minutes, but most of these officers likely didn't hear gunfire until they forced the issue when they felt they were ready.
Why school shootings in general I wonder? Once the guy shot his grandmother why was this school the next target? Was it close? It's not like Columbine or Parkland where he attended that school, those kids are 9. Why not his high school? or his employment? or a mall? or wherever else?
News reports said that he had had crashed his vehicle, so possibly he was heading somewhere else before that happened and this was opportunistic?
News reports said that he had had crashed his vehicle, so possibly he was heading somewhere else before that happened and this was opportunistic?
I believe he had posted on fb before going on his killing spree that he was going to kill his grandmother and that he was going to kill people in the school. Such is what was said in a news report I watched.
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There was a video somewhere of different people who were "trained" with handguns that were given paintball hand guns and told to sit through a mock class, and if an active shooter (another guy with a paintball gun) came into the class they were to defend themselves.
It was absolute chaos when they ran the scenario, and from what I remember a total failure.
People in military or law enforcement can probably chime in here, but law enforcement is trained how to properly act in a shoot out......control their breathing, not panic, keep heart rate levels low whereas these people in the mock shooter scenario panicked, fumbled their weapons, shot other people and basically did F-all.
You're likely adding to the problem if you arm teachers. It's literally the worst solution I can think of.
Not to mention having a bunch of errant bullets flying through schools is a downright awful idea. 90%+ of the bullets fired are not hitting shooters and likely flying towards the classroom across the hall.
There was a video somewhere of different people who were "trained" with handguns that were given paintball hand guns and told to sit through a mock class, and if an active shooter (another guy with a paintball gun) came into the class they were to defend themselves.
It was absolute chaos when they ran the scenario, and from what I remember a total failure.
People in military or law enforcement can probably chime in here, but law enforcement is trained how to properly act in a shoot out......control their breathing, not panic, keep heart rate levels low whereas these people in the mock shooter scenario panicked, fumbled their weapons, shot other people and basically did F-all.
You're likely adding to the problem if you arm teachers. It's literally the worst solution I can think of.
Perhaps it should be requirement for Congress and the Senate to be armed. Then one day they'll realize how bad of a plan this is. *picturing Lindsey Graham with an uzi*
I'm only half serious here but do you think enacting serious gun measures could throw America into a civil war? Perhaps its a bit far fetched but could it??
I have a question about arming teacher with gun. What kind of gun will teachers be armed with? 5 bullets revolver? Glock? Most (all) mass shooting incidents, the perpetrator armed with semi automatic weapons, ak-something which shoot approx 40 rounds / min. Before the poor teacher can pull out his or her weapon, he / she is dead already. Then what are they gonna do? Arm the teachers with a AK-47, which they carry it on the shoulders over their head? Like a soldier?
I'm only half serious here but do you think enacting serious gun measures could throw America into a civil war? Perhaps its a bit far fetched but could it??
I don’t know why somebody with money doesn’t try to challenge the interpretation of the constitution.
“Cell was right - you think you’re better than everyone else. But there you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles into blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you will be that you stuck true to your guns. You were a coward, to your last whimper. Of fear and love, I fear not that I will die, but that all that I have come to love - the birds, and the things that are not birds - will perish with me.”
"So grow up"
...
Concludes argument with a moving quote from Dragon Ball Z.
To fairly address this argument, many people get into the teaching profession because they have a passion for teaching or have a nurturing philosophy which may be anti-violence. Telling them to get armed because they have no choice is just going to drive good teachers out of the profession. Some people just do not want to have a gun.
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Why school shootings in general I wonder? Once the guy shot his grandmother why was this school the next target? Was it close? It's not like Columbine or Parkland where he attended that school, those kids are 9. Why not his high school? or his employment? or a mall? or wherever else?
shooting up little kids makes a bigger social media splash, we're in the age of instagram massacres now
It’s not satire, it’s just sadness, bud. What does one even say about this #### anymore.
I get it man. I do.
I don't think you're an idiot, I think you're just at the end of your rope and running out of potential solutions.
But arming teachers is dumb and dangerous and just a spectacularly bad idea all around.
I mean...I remember teachers who were spectacularly unqualified to handle a piece of chalk and now we're going to hand them a piece?
Its stupid and it just wont work.
"Arming Teachers" is pretty much the epitome of Politicians looking for a way to say:
"Welp...that didnt work...but we tried! We tried SO HARD! Its not our fault it didnt work!!"
The problem is just that for a myriad of reasons it just so obviously wont work.
I mean....shall we count the ways? There were a dozen cops with guns and armour standing around outside with their...well lets say they were not productive.
And now we're expecting some guy with an English degree and a Gat to be John McClane? Its not gonna happen.
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If you are flammable and have legs, you are never blocking a Fire Exit. - Mitch Hedberg
many look like this...they have chosen freedom over having children slaughtered. That's all it comes down to. I know with the pandemic we had many discussions over trade offs to our freedoms. America is what unfettered freedom looks like if you're white, and endless children being murdered are part of that picture. Careful what you wish for.
If the choice is arm teachers or wait for a legislative solution that isn’t coming, what’s the least bad choice?
This is the moment when arming anyone, teachers, security guards, retired soldiers all became irrelevant, this was first generation modern Kevlar, the new stuff is twice as good, it now takes hundreds of rounds to bring down a shooter once you have them cornered as they did yesterday, as long as the shooter is on the move they are all but immune to being shot by normal guns
