Ongoing US Mass Shooting Thread 2

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by JohnnyB

Great way to lose most of your best teaching talent. I used to hire a lot of very good teachers away from US schools because the conditions weren't that good. Nobody is forced to be a teacher, so telling people to ”grow up” and get a gun in preparation for a life or death encounter is also a great way of saying “maybe you should work elsewhere”. Sucks for those communities that lose great teachers.

If the choice is arm teachers or wait for a legislative solution that isn’t coming, what’s the least bad choice?

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If the choice is arm teachers or wait for a legislative solution that isn’t coming, what’s the least bad choice?

Do nothing!

If your options are:
a) status quo while you wait for something that obviously isn't happening
b) make things worse

You go with A 100% of the time.

[jammies]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If the choice is arm teachers or wait for a legislative solution that isn’t coming, what’s the least bad choice?

Those aren't the only choices.

[MoneyGuy]

Originally Posted by CroFlames

They do it for votes. Religious people will vote for people who pretend to be religious. Remember when Trump held up a bible that one time in front of a church?

Quote something beautiful about love from the bible and people lap it up.

Yes, also when he was asked to cite his favourite Bible verse and he couldn’t name one so he lied about it being “a personal matter.”

[Tron_fdc]

I find changing a teachers job description from "Educator" to "Armed Guard/Paramedic/Educator" to be one of the most ridiculous solutions that there is.

The fact that a possible "solution" is to put a deadly weapon into a classroom just goes to show how effing outrageous this whole situation is. It shouldn't even be an option.

[OptimalTates]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If the choice is arm teachers or wait for a legislative solution that isn’t coming, what’s the least bad choice?

Waiting. Easily.

5% of gun-related deaths are accidental in the USA. Covid lockdowns significantly increased the number of accidental deaths as children were left at home with access to those guns.

Moving those guns into the classroom will result in more accidental deaths than the 20ish deaths you see every couple of years from situations like this. Then you'll also have students recognizing that their five foot nothing, 72 year old substitute teacher is packing and they won't even need to wait until they are 18 to legally purchase like Ramos did when they can just swipe it.

Honestly, a better plan would be to arm the bullied. You really going to keep picking on Steve's gigantic ears after the teacher just gave him a .44 because he was crying? It's sad that this is honestly a better "solution" than the arming teachers people are actually debating lol.

[puckedoff]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

If the choice is arm teachers or wait for a legislative solution that isn’t coming, what’s the least bad choice?

I thought your post above was satire, but clearly arming teachers is going to lead to increased gun incidents and accidents, and also puts firearms within reach of all children all the time. If anything it makes guns more accessible to angsty kids/teenagers who may otherwise not be able to get one (if that is even possible in the US).

[WhiteTiger]

Originally Posted by OptimalTates

Waiting. Easily.

Not to mention...you have to be mentally prepared/able to shoot at/kill someone as well as deal with the mental trauma afterwards. Which is the expectation if you arm teachers...that they will shoot and kill threats to the children.

That is a HUGE ask, that has no right to be asked.

[blankall]

As far as the actions of the police and delaying a confrontation, this assuredly has something to do with new protocols being put in place. It's one of those things, where if you put a bunch of restrictions for safety reasons that prevent officers from acting, eventually you're going to run into a situation where you would have wanted them to act but they can't.

Who knows, maybe I'm way off here, but I have a hard time believing that every single officer who arrived on the scene was just too afraid to act earlier.

There's also likely no right answer here either, as we've all scene the horrific outcomes that occur when officers take the law into their own hands too.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

I am fully aware that this is a stupid ass solution that will likely cause deaths it doesn’t intend to, but the teachers need to be armed.

I’m sorry, but they do. I know the arguments against it. I don’t disagree with a single one of them.

But you don’t always get to choose the world you live in. If you’re an American teacher, you inhabit a world where kids get murdered by guns at your job with repulsive regularity.

Nobody is coming to save you. Not from the state house, not from Washington.

It’s not right, it’s not fair. And yet, there’s still the problem of the teenager with a machine gun roaming the hallways.

So get strapped. Do you want to protect these kids or not?

If I were an American teacher, I wouldn’t want to be unarmed. I wouldn’t want to huddle in the dark with a bunch of terrified pre-pubescents praying to God that none of them scream or cry, and that the door doesn’t open.

If I were an American teacher, I’d want to protect the children in my room. I’d want to look down the barrel of something at the ####wit who came to murder my kids and say “you first”.

Teachers always want to tell you what heroes they are, and no doubt many teachers have performed incredibly brave acts during the course of these attacks. But sometimes being heroic means doing things you don’t want to do for the greater good.

I get that you don’t WANT to carry a gun as a teacher, but if someone attacks your school, you’re literally the only person standing between 20 kids and the afterlife.

So grow up.

“Cell was right - you think you’re better than everyone else. But there you stand, the good man doing nothing. And while evil triumphs, and your rigid pacifism crumbles into blood stained dust, the only victory afforded to you will be that you stuck true to your guns. You were a coward, to your last whimper. Of fear and love, I fear not that I will die, but that all that I have come to love - the birds, and the things that are not birds - will perish with me.”

I'm going to say this in the nicest possible way. How ####ing stupid are you?

Even with the daily frequency of these events happening, there are still 3.2 million teachers in the US that this doesn't happen to every day. putting 3 million guns into schools to solve a problem that happens to 0.000003% of classrooms on a given school day will not make the problem better. It will not make people safer, it will only make psychopath feel safer, and children will die down the barrels of those guns meant to protect them. It would happen.

I'd like you say that you are as bad as the people that want to turn schools into fortresses, so they become incredibly easy to turn into kill boxes, trapping students inside with the attacker, because as any sane person knows trying to build constant fortress out of 130,000 buildings is such an impossible task there will be leaks everywhere, but for the attacker to fortify 1 building for a short period of time, especially when it was designed to be fortified would be the easiest thing in the world. But the reality is you are much much worse than someone who is stupid enough to think that locking their child in a kill box would be the best way to protect them.

Anyone who says it is a good idea to put any guns in the hands of any one in any childrens education setting deserves every bit of scorn and ridicule any of us can possibly deliver.

[GreenLantern2814]

Originally Posted by puckedoff

I thought your post above was satire, but clearly arming teachers is going to lead to increased gun incidents and accidents, and also puts firearms within reach of all children all the time. If anything it makes guns more accessible to angsty kids/teenagers who may otherwise not be able to get one (if that is even possible in the US).

It’s not satire, it’s just sadness, bud. What does one even say about this #### anymore.

[MoneyGuy]

Arming teachers is f’d up. But America is f’d up anyway so it wouldn’t surprise me.

[Senator Clay Davis]

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

It’s not satire, it’s just sadness, bud. What does one even say about this #### anymore.

You say "God Bless America" and move on. Country is a lost cause in almost every way.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Guaranteed arming teachers goes down this route:

-Some state will pass a law allowing/requiring teachers to carry guns
-This will of course be a state with a "Stand your ground" law
-Some teacher will get in a confrontation with a student, feel threatened and shoot the kid
-The teacher will get off with no consequences because they "Stood their ground"

If the teacher/student are both white, the Governor of that state (Definitely Republican), will say how it's a tragedy, but having armed teachers has definitely saved thousands of lives.

If the teacher is white and the student is black, the Governor of that state will say that, while it is tragic, if the student had listened to the teacher this tragedy wouldn't have happened.

Seriously, we can't trust the cops to not shoot unarmed black kids, what makes anyone think teachers will do a better job?

[FlamesAddiction]

And would teachers armed with guns get the proper training to use them? I could see a lot of teachers pulling out a gun, but then freezing, especially if they need to shoot one of their students.

[#-3]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

Guaranteed arming teachers goes down this route:

-Some state will pass a law allowing/requiring teachers to carry guns
-This will of course be a state with a "Stand your ground" law
-Some teacher will get in a confrontation with a student, feel threatened and shoot the kid
-The teacher will get off with no consequences because they "Stood their ground"

If the teacher/student are both white, the Governor of that state (Definitely Republican), will say how it's a tragedy, but having armed teachers has definitely saved thousands of lives.

If the teacher is white and the student is black, the Governor of that state will say that, while it is tragic, if the student had listened to the teacher this tragedy wouldn't have happened.

Seriously, we can't trust the cops to not shoot unarmed black kids, what makes anyone think teachers will do a better job?

Now do Black teach / White Student.

Reinstate death penalty?

[KTrain]

Think of all the teachers you've had in your life and tell me how many of them you would want to be armed in the classroom?

You know the training would be half-assed. Hell, most school boards barely want to pay for regular extra teacher training and supplies but now they're going to send teachers to firearms training and give them a gun? Are the guns going to be locked up at the school every night (unguarded cache of 50-100 guns) or do teachers get to bring them home (more guns in the community)?

Arming teachers is a knee-jerk reaction that will just cause more problems.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

And would teachers armed with guns get the proper training to use them? I could see a lot of teachers pulling out a gun, but then freezing, especially if they need to shoot one of their students.

Well this is an entirely hypothetical situation, and no one knows the details so we can't really say for certain....except that it is 100% certain that they would not get proper training to use them.

Training on how to store it? Probably
Training on how to shoot it? Sure
Training on how to actually stop a shooter in the school without making the situation worse? Absolutely, unequivocally, 100% no. It's simply not possible.

Teachers are, and should be teachers, and to do what people are saying, they would need to be specially trained cops. So sure, if you want teachers to be the ones to stop school shootings, it's technically possible, but in that scenario, you'll have a swat team teaching biology instead of a teacher.

[puckedoff]

I can just imagine my old librarian yelling "SILENCER'S ON!" instead of "Shhhh".

[Tron_fdc]

There was a video somewhere of different people who were "trained" with handguns that were given paintball hand guns and told to sit through a mock class, and if an active shooter (another guy with a paintball gun) came into the class they were to defend themselves.

It was absolute chaos when they ran the scenario, and from what I remember a total failure.

People in military or law enforcement can probably chime in here, but law enforcement is trained how to properly act in a shoot out......control their breathing, not panic, keep heart rate levels low whereas these people in the mock shooter scenario panicked, fumbled their weapons, shot other people and basically did F-all.

You're likely adding to the problem if you arm teachers. It's literally the worst solution I can think of.