Ongoing thread for Neal/Lucic discussion

[Azure]

Originally Posted by btimbit

Neal @ 6.5mil
Lucic @ 5.25 mil

Neither exactly give you the warm fuzzies but I know which I'd prefer.

Really want to know the details of the NMC though before I call this either way. One big bag of meh

Saving a million dollars in cap space next year is a big deal for the Flames.

The only thing now is whether or not Lucic will fully waive his NMC so he can be exposed in the expansion draft or moved to a team that can buy him out.

If the Flames can do that this deal is a total win.

Given the fact that everyone here hates it I am inclined to like it.

[Vinny01]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Neal brought a ton of that as well.

What? If Neal has it he left it in Vegas or Nashville. He brought absolutely nothing last year.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by Azure

Saving a million dollars in cap space next year is a big deal for the Flames.

The only thing now is whether or not Lucic will fully waive his NMC so he can be exposed in the expansion draft or moved to a team that can buy him out.

If the Flames can do that this deal is a total win.

Given the fact that everyone here hates it I am inclined to like it.

Flames save 500k in cap space next year or roughly 0.6 percent of the cap. That borders on irrelevant.

[stang]

Originally Posted by FireGilbert

I guess overall this makes me neutral. This is a huge gamble by Treliving and I hope it pays off. Trying to stay positive I will say at least Lucic, unlike Neal, might have the ability to flip a switch for the playoffs.

Neal’s 55 points in 100 playoff games before this one lousy series, doesn’t show he can play in the playoffs?

Even prior to the trade I’d have put money on Neal rebounding (as well as Talbot.)

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by bubbsy

nope.... slept on it, still feels like a stupid move.

Trading for one of the worst contracts in the league, with the sweetner being a 3rd round pick should you flat out lose the trade ............

Just a desperate, dumb move.

would have been better off just keeping neal, waiving him, and resigning hathaway at the same contract he signed with the caps for.

treliving better have more moves coming, because his offseason thus far hasnt' made this team better, and appear like a sure fire first round knockout yet again.

Are you suggesting that a team would have picked up Neal on Waivers? No chance in hell. BT is a smart man. I'm sure he tried everything he could to get rid of Neal elsewhere with no takers.

Or are you suggesting that we would have sent him down and then paid money for Hathaway? That would have added more cap to our already bad cap situation. At least we are saving $500,000 in much needed cap space.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by mdubz

You can find a veteran with toughness for a lot less than 6 million a year out there.

Ok. Who and was the cost? And what are you doing with James Neal? Don't need to look too deep to see the relationship with the coach was not going to work. Neal was likely told he was going to play with Monahan and Gaudreau. Peters quashed that before it even had a chance & id say he was right.

So, back to the question, what are you doing with Neal? Trading him for Andrew Ladd? Kyle Okposo? Trade him to another team with your first round pick + for picking up 4 more years of Neal?

[FlamesAreOne]

Reading Oiler forums brings me back to what it was like when Neal signed here originally. "Real Deal Neal baby!", "Book him for 20 on our top line easy", "Grit and a guy that can finish", etc, etc.

They are going to be so disappointed much like we were. It's easy for them to say he will rebound, but if he couldn't keep up with Monahan even how is he going to do so with McDavid?

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by PepsiFree

Franchise crippling?

Trading a guy who potted 19 points and played like #### all over the rest of the ice, while the rest of the team got us to 2nd overall is “franchise crippling”?

My god man. Go for a walk.

Ummm....one contract has an easy way out, the other doesnt. I will let you figure out which one is much more desireable.

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-c...or/milan-lucic

https://www.capfriendly.com/buyout-c...tor/james-neal

And thanks for the advice, but im pretty comfortable sitting here watching golf and admonishing management for the worst trade in decades thanks.

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Nope.

If last year was a conditioning issue for Neal as has been reported many times, then there is every reason to believe he can bounce back to what he was...which was miles better than Lucic has been for years now. Neal is to blame for his conditioning, no question. That is fixable though....being slow forever is not.

Then you add in the structure of each guys contract, how they can be dealt with moving forward, the NMC, and recent production history and this has the earmarks of a debacle.

This has the potential to be a franchise crippling decision. Im a big BT guy, but this is just looking for all the world to be his biggest mistake and possibly could cost him his job.

But Neal was never a fast skater to begin with. THere is a greater chance that with age (32) he is getting slower. They are both slow and there is no way you can convince me that Neal, with the greatest training in the world, will be any faster than Lucic.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Yoho

Neal brought a ton of that as well.

For me, the most frustrating thing about Neal last year wasn't the lack of production (I figured that would eventually return), it was the total lack of grit. Where was the hard-to-play-against guy that we were supposed to get? Where was the sandpaper? Where was the guy that got under the skin of other players?

Offense can go cold. But effort and give-a-#### is up to the player. And for me, we didn't get anywhere near as much of that from Neal as we were supposed to.

We shall see what Lucic beings.

[I_H8_Crawford]

Sorry double post

[stang]

Originally Posted by FlamesAreOne

Reading Oiler forums brings me back to what it was like when Neal signed here originally. "Real Deal Neal baby!", "Book him for 20 on our top line easy", "Grit and a guy that can finish", etc, etc.

They are going to be so disappointed much like we were. It's easy for them to say he will rebound, but if he couldn't keep up with Monahan even how is he going to do so with McDavid?

It’s been widely reported that his physical and mental state coming into last year was poor due to 2 back to back cup final losses. This year he’s been training with Connor under Roberts.

I’m more thinking he’s going to be good with Nuge, and on the PP

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

What? If Neal has it he left it in Vegas or Nashville. He brought absolutely nothing last year.

Mailing it in all year is just as bad, taking his atittude with him to the playoff totally unprofessional!

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

This contract screws the flames today, screws them next year and royally effs them in the ass the final 2 years.

To top that off, they gave their provincial rival a get out of jail free card for FREE.

Treliving literally made the flames worse and the Oilers better from a contract position for NOTHING.

Originally Posted by I_H8_Crawford

This contract screws the flames today, screws them next year and royally effs them in the ass the final 2 years.

To top that off, they gave their provincial rival a get out of jail free card for FREE.

Treliving literally made the flames worse and the Oilers better from a contract position for NOTHING.

Lol

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by kyuss275

But Neal was never a fast skater to begin with. THere is a greater chance that with age (32) he is getting slower. They are both slow and there is no way you can convince me that Neal, with the greatest training in the world, will be any faster than Lucic.

Never said he was...but quicker than Lucic? Every day of the week and twice on Saturday nights.

As for age? Both guys will be 32 at this time next season.

[Skyceman]

The Top 10 reasons to trade for Lucic

Milan Lucic is one of the game’s most feared players. Almost every NHL team has a player somewhat similar to Lucic, one who doesn’t score much but plays the body consistently and ferociously. But there’s only one Lucic. No one else plays the intimidation game as well as this 6-foot, 3-inch, 230-pound mound of meanness. It’s worth noting that Connor McDavid has never had a major injury in a game where Lucic has suited up (McDavid was only hurt this year in the last game, when Lucic himself was out resting an injury). So if a team has a young offensive star that is always getting beaten up, and if that team lacks the kind of intimidation that Lucic provides, the GM of that team might well be tempted to bring in one of the NHL’s top bodyguards.

Lucic is a monster possession player. Every single year of his NHL career he’s been a plus 50% Corsi player. For the last four years, he’s been a positive CorsiRel player on the Oilers and L.A. Kings. A lot of NHL teams have bought in heavily to possession metrics such as Corsi and Fenwick for player evaluation. I don’t put much weight in such metrics myself. I focus on a different mode of statistical analysis, individual contributions to scoring chance. But if you see great significance in Corsi and other possession stats, is not Lucic your man, at least at the right price? For example, last year when it came to Oilers forwards who played 40 or more games, not one of them had a better Corsi number than Lucic’s 51 per cent. Indeed, he outperformed Connor McDavid’s 50.5 per cent Corsi in this regard! Talk about being a possession player, a driver, talk about “pushing the river,” that evidently was Lucic last year, at least according to this kind of analysis.

Lucic isn’t slowing down when it comes to board work. He was ninth in the NHL for hits for forwards at 3.3 per game. You may ask why Edmonton would be willing to part with such a physical force. It’s because the Oilers are well stocked in big, tough physical players in Darnell Nurse, Zack Kassian and Jujhar Khaira. Having Lucic is overkill. But that’s not the case with all NHL teams, some of whom don’t have even one hardcore tough guy on the roster.

Lucic brings that “solid veteran presence” and “Stanley Cup-winning pedigree” that so many GMs seem to yearn for in their team’s dressing room.

Lucic is significantly overpaid, yes, but other players like him earn huge pay packets as well. NHL GMs evidently value fierce veteran intimidators who hit a lot, work hard and lead in the dressing room. For example, Matt Martin, with 4.1 hits per game, earned $2.5 million last year, Ryan Reaves, 3.8 hits per game, $2.8 million, Cal Clutterbuck, 2.9 hits per game, $3.5 million, and David Backes, 2.0 hits per game made $6.0 million. You can get this type of hard-hitting, low-scoring forward on a cheaper deal, but the elite veteran intimidators are paid well.

In an NHL where big, tough and physical St. Louis just won the Stanley Cup, Lucic is big, tough and physical par excellence. He moves fast in a straight line and hammers opposing players. Is that not what some teams lacked in the playoffs? Did they not get pushed around by St. Louis this year, or big, tough Washington last year? Could not Lucic help with that problem?

Lucic is incredibly durable. He’s only missed 13 regular season games in the past nine NHL seasons. He played 79 last year. He’s plays like a tank and evidently is built like one too.

Lucic achieved his strong Corsi number despite the fact his defensive zone start percentage was 54.5 per cent. So he started in a hole much of the time, but still had that 51 per cent Corsi.

In his career of 890 NHL games, Lucic has scored on 13.5 per cent of his shots. Last year, he scored on just 8.1 per cent, and the year before he scored on just 6.8 per cent. Might not part of his scoring slump be reasonably attributed to poor puck luck? He’s scored just 16 goals the last two years. If he had shot at his career average, he would have put in 30 goals (My own analysis of scoring chances shots pegs him at 21 expected goals scored for these past two years).

https://edmontonjournal.com/sports/h...or-milan-lucic

[Rhettzky]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Never said he was...but quicker than Lucic? Every day of the week and twice on Saturday nights.

As for age? Both guys will be 32 at this time next season.

But before the season Neal will be 33!

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Never said he was...but quicker than Lucic? Every day of the week and twice on Saturday nights.

As for age? Both guys will be 32 at this time next season.

Spin is fun I guess. But Lucic will be 31 this season, and Neal will be 32.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Rhettzky

But before the season Neal will be 33!

I guess because Neal is 9 months older then we win!!!

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Never said he was...but quicker than Lucic? Every day of the week and twice on Saturday nights.

As for age? Both guys will be 32 at this time next season.

I'll just agree to disagree. Only way to settle this would be them to go one on one on a speed test. That would be a horrible thing to watch.

Yes your right about age as of next year at this time. Lucic turned 31 in june. Neal turns 32 in Septmeber. For all reular season and playoff games Neal will always be a year older than Lucic.