Once again Israel shows it doesn't screw around

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by _Q_

I think the point of that is to offend Israelis to the point that they do some introspection and try to figure out why a group of people is comparing them to their all time most hated enemy.

You should probably let those people know that riling Israelis/pro-Israelis up past the point of introspection with the intent of affecting them with introspection is a pretty ineffective and stupid tactic.

Happy to help.

[Arya Stark]

Don't know if this has been posted but even the U.S is condemning Israel for its latest shelling of a U.N school.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle19840971/

Israel is losing support, and losing support fast. They need to stop attacking U.N shelters, this is absurd.

[saillias]

Yeah that's a bit disingenuous. Here's a Swastika in your face so you drop your guard and put yourselves in your opponent's shoes for a moment.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Chill Cosby

That doesn't seem like the definition of hate speech though:



I get what you're saying in that it's offensive and touches on a sensitive issue, but this is a matter of politics, is it not?

How is accusing the Israeli government of nazism an attack on race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation? Hate speech is most certainly occurring in this dispute, but how does criticism of political policy in the harshest way possible constitute hate speech?

Are you saying it's alright to accuse them of many things the nazi's also were guilty of, but not alright to reference nazi's directly because of the sensitive history?

Hate speech, like racism, is an extremely loaded phrase, but it has a pretty understandable definition. It seems like this guy was just being an insensitive dick, and maybe I'm just dumb, but I'm not seeing how it's hate speech in any definable way. Being offended by it doesn't make it hate speech.

If you refer to any other government as a nazi regime, are you just being ridiculous? Or are you actively spreading hate speech?

I do believe it falls under hate speech for the criminal code of Canada, as I posted in last page:

Hate propaganda" means "any writing, sign or visible representation that advocates or promotes genocide or the communication of which by any person would constitute an offence under section 319

And I'm basically saying when there are many ways to make the same point, using the most offending way to get that point across is not only plain stupid, in this case it's wrong.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Don't know if this has been posted but even the U.S is condemning Israel for its latest shelling of a U.N school.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle19840971/

Israel is losing support, and losing support fast. They need to stop attacking U.N shelters, this is absurd.

They do need to stop, they've basically laid out where the battleground is supposed to be, in that 3 mile buffer zone, and should stay there. If Hamas hides by UN schools in the safe zone, at this point Israel should say good, you're giving us more room to take out the tunnels. Pushing further into the safe zone is moving further away from their objectives of destroying the tunnels.

One job at a time, take out the tunnels then deal with the remaining rockets.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Don't know if this has been posted but even the U.S is condemning Israel for its latest shelling of a U.N school.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle19840971/

Israel is losing support, and losing support fast. They need to stop attacking U.N shelters, this is absurd.

Doesn't matter. Israel knows that no one will take any concrete action no matter how many shelters are hit. P.S. the U.S. just agreed today to re-supply Israel with ammo.

[_Q_]

I guess according to that definition, showing a swastika in public can be considered hate speech since the symbol itself promotes genocide.

But I don't think there's anything wrong with comparing Israel to Nazis Germany if one truly feels that it's an accurate comparison. We live in a free country and if someone can make a compelling argument that equates the two regimes then he's free to do so, even if you don't agree with the comparison.

Personally I think both the swastika guy and the Israeli flag wavers were both trying to get a rise out of the other side. I think they both got what they deserve and I think the police rightfully didn't act in both cases. They're also not worth debating since solving their issue has nothing to do with Israel/Palestine and more so with the nuances of Canadian laws.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by WCW Nitro

Doesn't matter. Israel knows that no one will take any concrete action no matter how many shelters are hit. P.S. the U.S. just agreed today to re-supply Israel with ammo.

Shameful. I am not a muslim but Israel's actions disgust me to the core. I hope I am alive to see the day where a proper military stands up against Israel and wins a war against them and makes a proper 2 state solution, by force, and Israel is so crippled it is never looked at as a top military power in the world again. Peace might finally come to the middle East if that happens.

[MarchHare]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Shameful. I am not a muslim but Israel's actions disgust me to the core. I hope I am alive to see the day where a proper military stands up against Israel and wins a war against them and makes a proper 2 state solution, by force, and Israel is so crippled it is never looked at as a top military power in the world again. Peace might finally come to the middle East if that happens.

I also support a two state solution and long-term peace and stability in the Middle East, but I hope it comes through peaceful diplomacy, not military force.

[Arya Stark]

If my relatives were being slaughtered by Israel, then waiving their flag in my face would be just as hurtful and hateful as someone waiving a Swastika in my face if I was Jewish.

You can't pick and choose what hate speech is. An Israeli flag is just as disrespectful to a Palestinian who just had their whole family, relatives blown to pieces in a U.N shelter as it is to a Jewish man who sees a man with a swastika on an Israeli flag.

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech and it should be protected.

[Arya Stark]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

I also support a two state solution and long-term peace and stability in the Middle East, but I hope it comes through peaceful diplomacy, not military force.

That will never happen as Israel has made it clear it wants nothing to do with a 2 state solution. War is sometimes the answer for the greater good. We as Canadians know that very well.

If it can't come through peace then sadly war is the only other option.

[Coys1882]

Originally Posted by burn_this_city

Hannity is appalling, I'm shocked people fall for that garbage.

I'm surprised anyone would even agree to go on that clown's show. what a blowhard.

[PsYcNeT]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Freedom of speech is freedom of speech and it should be protected.

I don't think you understand what freedom of speech is.

[WCW Nitro]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Shameful. I am not a muslim but Israel's actions disgust me to the core. I hope I am alive to see the day where a proper military stands up against Israel and wins a war against them and makes a proper 2 state solution, by force, and Israel is so crippled it is never looked at as a top military power in the world again. Peace might finally come to the middle East if that happens.

What do you think all the hoopla about the Iranian nuke program is about? Israel can do whatever it wants now since it's the only nuclear power in the region.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Shameful. I am not a muslim but Israel's actions disgust me to the core. I hope I am alive to see the day where a proper military stands up against Israel and wins a war against them and makes a proper 2 state solution, by force, and Israel is so crippled it is never looked at as a top military power in the world again. Peace might finally come to the middle East if that happens.

And likely hundreds of thousands of Israelis would be slaughtered, along with a protracted war that includes the US. I don't think there is a road to peace that doesn't include Israel smartering the f up.

[Chill Cosby]

Originally Posted by J epworth kendal

I do believe it falls under hate speech for the criminal code of Canada, as I posted in last page:

Hate propaganda" means "any writing, sign or visible representation that advocates or promotes genocide or the communication of which by any person would constitute an offence under section 319

And I'm basically saying when there are many ways to make the same point, using the most offending way to get that point across is not only plain stupid, in this case it's wrong.

I think, based on language, that his "flag" was neither advocating or promoting genocide, but condemning it (in the most offensive way possible).

That said, I believe I see what you're getting at. I think it's how you view the intent in this case, as I don't think his intention was to promote hate against Israeli and Jewish civilians in general, but rather to condemn their government while being as generally upsetting as possible (given the sensitivity of the matter).

[flamefan74]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Don't know if this has been posted but even the U.S is condemning Israel for its latest shelling of a U.N school.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...ticle19840971/

Israel is losing support, and losing support fast. They need to stop attacking U.N shelters, this is absurd.

I'm wondering why Israel doesn't release proof that there are rockets in the area. Maybe they do and I haven't seen it. Or maybe Israel just doesn't care what anyone thinks. It just seems like the generic answer when they screw up.

[AltaGuy]

I find it offensive when Nazism and the Holocaust are brought up in the Palestinian/Israeli conflict no matter the source or intentions.

When used by Palestinian supporters, it is a cheap, tacky, and hurtful reminder to those of Jewish ancestry of a spectacularly vile series of acts perpetrated on their kin. Attempting to limit the scope of the comparison to this or that facet of Nazism is simply dissembling.

Likewise, I find it offensive when pro-Israelis assign broad-brush comparisons between Muslims or Arabs and Nazis. Heinous acts and viewpoints in the Muslim and Arab world (of which unfortunately there are many) should be called out for what they are without diminishing the actual horrors of Nazism and the Holocaust.

The Holocaust was the single most horrific moment in the history of mankind. Not because of the number of people who died, and not because it was a genocide (there have obviously been other genocides and other mass murders in history); no, the Holocaust is uniquely horrific because a modern Western state used its state apparatus to enumerate, dehumanize, and exterminate great swaths of regular people.

I reject any argument or comparison in the rhetoric of either side to Nazism or the Holocaust.

[J epworth]

Originally Posted by flamefan74

I'm wondering why Israel doesn't release proof that there are rockets in the area. Maybe they do and I haven't seen it. Or maybe Israel just doesn't care what anyone thinks. It just seems like the generic answer when they screw up.

Their IDF twitter posts videos every day of showing rockets leaving from civilian sites. Their twitter feed is essentially their official propaganda feed but still useful to find official statements from IDF, here's one from yesterday:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=y...&v=J-fh-fRs7To

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Arya Stark

Shameful. I am not a muslim but Israel's actions disgust me to the core. I hope I am alive to see the day where a proper military stands up against Israel and wins a war against them and makes a proper 2 state solution, by force, and Israel is so crippled it is never looked at as a top military power in the world again. Peace might finally come to the middle East if that happens.

Well that's not likely to be a positive thing since the Military's that stand up to Israel would likely be Middle Eastern, like Iran etc wouldn't just impose a two state solution, they would fight a war of extermination.

You really don't have a firm grasp on why Israel reacts the way that it does.