2024/2025 Season trade rumours and speculation thread

[Wolven]

Originally Posted by dino7c

but did they have fun?
SJ literally signed an old UFA this past offseason...shrewd move to finish last again? or were they hoping to be a bit better?

I thought SJ was perhaps signaling that they were going to try to pull out of the rebuild... but then they didn't really make any other "right now" moves.

Now I think the contract was just to get them above the salary floor. They needed to get above $65M and without Toffoli they would be sitting at $62M.

[Bonded]

I might have been wrong about Cozens… he might have been worth a Zary swap

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Well just because Bedard hasn’t lit up the world at age 19 doesn’t mean McQueen would be a better get lol.

MacKinnon didn’t take off until his 5th season and his situation was similar until they got some better players.

People called Crosby soft and a whiner as well.

LOL. Maybe some fans did. But virtually all professionals saw him as a potential generational talent from a young age.

[Sylvanfan]

Well they still need some vets to help younger guys. So that's likely why they claimed Goodrow too in addition to signing Taffoli.

Eventually they need better coaching and in a league with a few Maga minded players high tax California and the Bay Area is not quite the destination it was 15 years ago if the team isn't top notch.

They could be more like say the 2007-2008 Blackhawks next year and take a huge leap forward. But a couple more 5 plus goal losses and I think they'll be looking to bring in a veteran coach sooner than later to put a stop to that.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by dissentowner

Is he? So was Alexander Daigle. Parekh is doing things that also point to being a generational defenceman. So you would trade a future franchise D man who is younger, cost controlled for longer, for a player who is starting to look like a first line winger? That's called being idiotic. We can all be thankful you are just a crappy poster on a Flames message board instead of our GM.

Conroy would trade Parekh for Bedard in a second, as would every other GM in the league.

[Enoch Root]

I think Bedard might be the most over-rated player in the NHL right now.

Is he going to be a great player? Almost certainly. Is he going to be a star player? We'll see what level.

But many fans still seem to think that he will be a generational player. I know a lot of fans here thought he would be better than McDavid, before he was drafted. Personally, I never saw that - maybe something more like a Kucherov or a Kane.

But almost 2 years later? The progression hasn't been what one would expect for a star, let alone a generational player. 0.90 PPG last year (definitely star-tracking) but then 0.78 this year - regression, and disappointing. Yes, I know he's on a crappy team, but young players put up points on crappy teams, every year.

I don't think he's ever going to be a top player in the league, more like a top 10 for points, maybe topping out at something like a Pastrnak level - great, but not what many are expecting/seeing.

Just my opinion.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Bonded

I might have been wrong about Cozens… he might have been worth a Zary swap

I been saying this since before the deadline, I would have done it as Cozens would slot ahead of any centers we have in our entire franchise.

He IMO is a #1 center, with potential to be in the upper half of top #1 centers in the league.

We are loaded on the wing and Cozens and Frost gives us a good shot at center move forward.

1 tank season and drafting another center would give us a very good top 3 and maybe makes 1 a good trade asset.

[Ped]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think Bedard might be the most over-rated player in the NHL right now.

Is he going to be a great player? Almost certainly. Is he going to be a star player? We'll see what level.

But many fans still seem to think that he will be a generational player. I know a lot of fans here thought he would be better than McDavid, before he was drafted. Personally, I never saw that - maybe something more like a Kucherov or a Kane.

But almost 2 years later? The progression hasn't been what one would expect for a star, let alone a generational player. 0.90 PPG last year (definitely star-tracking) but then 0.78 this year - regression, and disappointing. Yes, I know he's on a crappy team, but young players put up points on crappy teams, every year.

I don't think he's ever going to be a top player in the league, more like a top 10 for points, maybe topping out at something like a Pastrnak level - great, but not what many are expecting/seeing.

Just my opinion.

Not saying he will end up like that, but Mackinnon regressed badly in his second season, too. Now he is, of course, considered by many the best player in the game. It wasn't until his 4th season that he put it all together and exploded.

Obviously Bedard has a long ways to go to even think about those heights, but he has a lot of talent. A lot of it is up to franchise, but a lot of it is up to him, too. No one knows where he is going to go, and there is definitely some concerning signs. But I think he still has time to alleviate those concerns.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Ped

Not saying he will end up like that, but Mackinnon regressed badly in his second season, too. Now he is, of course, considered by many the best player in the game. It wasn't until his 4th season that he put it all together and exploded.

Obviously Bedard has a long ways to go to even think about those heights, but he has a lot of talent. A lot of it is up to franchise, but a lot of it is up to him, too. No one knows where he is going to go, and there is definitely some concerning signs. But I think he still has time to alleviate those concerns.

MacKinnon regressed for 3 years before he exploded. He was 22 years old when he went from a 50-point guy to 97.

When you full rebuild, you are missing everyone not just your core.

MacKinnon's last 50-point season the top 6 scorers on Colorado were 25 and younger. Duchene was 24 but Mackinnon, Rantanen and Landeskog were all very very young.

They tried to add a veteran Jarome Iginla, but he was basically done at that point.

It took time to fill the roster.

Bedard is going to be 100+ point guy that is in the mix for Art Ross. Just needs a few players to play with.

He is also committed as they get. I like the Pat Kane comparison, but I think he will be a bit faster than Kane was which is scary to think.

Very similar skills though

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Wolven

I thought SJ was perhaps signaling that they were going to try to pull out of the rebuild... but then they didn't really make any other "right now" moves.

Now I think the contract was just to get them above the salary floor. They needed to get above $65M and without Toffoli they would be sitting at $62M.

The Flames have double the cap space as the Sharks so if they are "trying for 8th" they are not doing a good job

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I think Bedard might be the most over-rated player in the NHL right now.

Is he going to be a great player? Almost certainly. Is he going to be a star player? We'll see what level.

But many fans still seem to think that he will be a generational player. I know a lot of fans here thought he would be better than McDavid, before he was drafted. Personally, I never saw that - maybe something more like a Kucherov or a Kane.

But almost 2 years later? The progression hasn't been what one would expect for a star, let alone a generational player. 0.90 PPG last year (definitely star-tracking) but then 0.78 this year - regression, and disappointing. Yes, I know he's on a crappy team, but young players put up points on crappy teams, every year.

I don't think he's ever going to be a top player in the league, more like a top 10 for points, maybe topping out at something like a Pastrnak level - great, but not what many are expecting/seeing.

Just my opinion.

For players 18 years old in the last 30 years here are the top PPG

1. Crosby 1.25
2. McDavid 1.06
3. Bedard 0.89 (12th most all time)
4. Laine 0.877
5. Celebrini 0.869

For 19 year olds he drops to 54th all time, and 11th among all active NHLers

So his 18 year old season was certainly generational. His 19 year old is clearly a regression, but still ~ a top 50 best season ever for a 19 year old in PPG

McKinnon was 111th as a 19 year old in PPG.....

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

Conroy would trade Parekh for Bedard in a second, as would every other GM in the league.

Well yeah because less risk
Vancouver wouldnt trade Hughes for him though

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

For players 18 years old in the last 30 years here are the top PPG

1. Crosby 1.25
2. McDavid 1.06
3. Bedard 0.89 (12th most all time)
4. Laine 0.877
5. Celebrini 0.869

For 19 year olds he drops to 54th all time, and 11th among all active NHLers

So his 18 year old season was certainly generational. His 19 year old is clearly a regression, but still ~ a top 50 best season ever for a 19 year old in PPG

McKinnon was 111th as a 19 year old in PPG.....

Pens also had a prime Gonchar on the PP with Sid in his rookie year.

Add Recchi, Leclair and Palffy for part or all of the season.

Mario played a part of the season too.

That team wasn't good, but Sid was put in a spot to succeed. Bedard isn't Sid good, but the situation is much different.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Well yeah because less risk
Vancouver wouldnt trade Hughes for him though

Yes, they would.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

For players 18 years old in the last 30 years here are the top PPG

1. Crosby 1.25
2. McDavid 1.06
3. Bedard 0.89 (12th most all time)
4. Laine 0.877
5. Celebrini 0.869

For 19 year olds he drops to 54th all time, and 11th among all active NHLers

So his 18 year old season was certainly generational. His 19 year old is clearly a regression, but still ~ a top 50 best season ever for a 19 year old in PPG

McKinnon was 111th as a 19 year old in PPG.....

Well, tied with Laine and Celebrini isn't generational, but yes, it is definitely on a star track.

The concern is the regression. Being 11th among active players - how many are there that played when they were 19 - maybe a couple dozen? Thirty to fourty at the most? Eleventh doesn't sound terrible, but let's give it some context. And it certainly doesn't sound awesome.

[Jason14h]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Well, tied with Laine and Celebrini isn't generational, but yes, it is definitely on a star track.

The concern is the regression. Being 11th among active players - how many are there that played when they were 19 - maybe a couple dozen? Thirty to fourty at the most? Eleventh doesn't sound terrible, but let's give it some context. And it certainly doesn't sound awesome.

Here's the data feel free to look at it

https://www.quanthockey.com/nhl/play...l-players.html

Crosby, McDavid, Stamkos, Svechnikov, Kane, Laine, Kopitar, Matthews, Seguin, Keller, Marner are the only active players who got more as an 19 year old

6 sure fire HOFers.

Sure he may not end up in McDavid, McKinnon or Crosby level, but still not bad for the most overated player in the league

He may only end up as a HOFer

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I been saying this since before the deadline, I would have done it as Cozens would slot ahead of any centers we have in our entire franchise.

He IMO is a #1 center, with potential to be in the upper half of top #1 centers in the league.

We are loaded on the wing and Cozens and Frost gives us a good shot at center move forward.

1 tank season and drafting another center would give us a very good top 3 and maybe makes 1 a good trade asset.

Yeah, too bad the Flames didn’t have a guy like Norris. Sabres took a gamble on his health. Sharangovich is the only comparable but he has zero value with his play this year.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by Bonded

Yeah, too bad the Flames didn’t have a guy like Norris. Sabres took a gamble on his health. Sharangovich is the only comparable but he has zero value with his play this year.

In a perfect world we have someone like Norris and keep Zary. That would have been the best option.

But we didn't have that and the ask seemed to be Zary/Coronato +.

IMO Zary+ for Cozens is a good deal if the + is a different roster player or a pick hopefully in the 2nd round or later.

Zary and a late 1st, I still might pull the trigger. Center is going to be a big concern and with the 2024 draft looking so good, we are full of good prospects to fill the roster, but I don't see a #1 center.

If anything, we could have too many quality prospects that could create a log jam soon.

[Wastedyouth]

Mackinnon didn't look like Mackinnon till his 5th year. Mackinnon didn't even produce as half as well as Bedard did in Junior and even Mackinnons first two years in the league he didn't produce as well as Bedard already has. And Mackinnon had far far better line mates in his first two years.

Bedard is going to be pretty stellar. Maybe even Mackinnon level as he grows.

[Bonded]

There wasn’t a totally offside conversation that Monahan was as good as MacKinnon until MacKinnon hit that next gear. I’d trade any player, pick, or player in the Flames org for Bedard