Alberta Politics & Government Thread 3.0

[MegaErtz]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

There are flaws throughout our democratic conventions and processes (including leadership conventions churning out premiers). One of the biggest challenges is that it is nearly impossible to set up a system of checks and balances that is immune to abuse or improper influence.

Our society is governed by a mix of elected and unelected officials, with the unelected generally following the direction/guidance of the elected. We trust a lot of appointees to exercise their best judgment in very complex/critical matters...I can see how this could seem different than some random department, but I'm not sure it really is.

I'd also argue that IF an LG were to take such a drastic action, it would be more in service of democracy than against it, by steering things towards another election to achieve a clearer mandate. We accept that democracy/governance can be glacially slow (due in large part to many checks/balances in any given process)...I have no issue with an appointed official acting in good-faith to force a delay on a non-emergency issue if they can offer a reasonable justification to do so.

I don't know exactly how things would play out, but I'd imagine any dispute would find itself to a court of law sooner than later, at which point you could say that having multiple layers of judge(s) and an LG is as good of a system of checks/balances as you can reasonably hope for.

Excellent response, and thank you for taking the time to type it up. You're absolutely right, we can't have elected police officers and bus drivers, but we have elected official providing oversight and that's what makes democracy great. I agree with everything you typed right up until the last bit about an LG being as good a system of checks and balances as one could reasonably hope for.

How about a person elected by the people to provide this oversight? The Lt. Governor is a lot different than a police officer or bus driver. In this case, she may be the one to decide the fate of the most radical piece of legislation in our province's history. What gives her the right to have any more influence on the process than any one of us?

Danielle Smith is a dangerous lunatic, but she's absolutely right to cry foul over Salma Lakhani sabotaging her leadership campaign by floating the idea of not giving royal assent. I don't know if people know this, but Salma Lakhani is not allowed to vote. She's supposed to be neutral.

[Fuzz]

An elected Lt. Governor would be a disaster. That would politicize the office.

I don't have a problem with the LG reminding us what her powers are, and that Smith just can't ram through legislation that has us ignoring laws. All she is saying is that there are systems, of which she is apart of, to prevent that. I don't believe she said she wouldn't approve it, just this:

Alberta's lieutenant-governor says it's not a done deal that she would automatically sign off on a proposal from a United Conservative Party leadership candidate to pass a bill aimed at ignoring federal laws and court rulings.

Salma Lakhani says she would seek legal advice as required, but says she is duty-bound to ensure the Constitution is followed.

“We will try and cross that bridge when we get to it, and we will get the appropriate advice that we need as to whether we can sign, whether it's against our Constitution,” Lakhani said Thursday when asked about the sovereignty act bill proposed by former Wildrose party leader Danielle Smith.

https://edmonton.ctvnews.ca/alberta-...-act-1.6052650

"This is my roll, and this is what I would do" is not interfering. It's facts. It's nice to have that. If Smith doesn't like it, maybe she should stop pretending she will be the God Emperor of the Kingdom of Alberta, before she has even been elected to a seat in the Leg. What a clown.

[GGG]

To me this is why the Governor General and lieutenant governor are still around.

Enforce the non-codified norms.

If whatever they refuse to do was not meaningful and an abuse of power you would have protests in the street and constitutional overhaul.

So the balance between preventing illegal bills from being passed against a backdrop of constitutional crisis is a good tension to have. Also with our elected dictator model of government it provides a check of going too far of the rails.

It’s kind of like the senate, seems pretty useless but gets to threaten to reject the emergency powers act from time to time.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by MegaErtz

Excellent response, and thank you for taking the time to type it up. You're absolutely right, we can't have elected police officers and bus drivers, but we have elected official providing oversight and that's what makes democracy great. I agree with everything you typed right up until the last bit about an LG being as good a system of checks and balances as one could reasonably hope for.

How about a person elected by the people to provide this oversight? The Lt. Governor is a lot different than a police officer or bus driver. In this case, she may be the one to decide the fate of the most radical piece of legislation in our province's history. What gives her the right to have any more influence on the process than any one of us?

Danielle Smith is a dangerous lunatic, but she's absolutely right to cry foul over Salma Lakhani sabotaging her leadership campaign by floating the idea of not giving royal assent. I don't know if people know this, but Salma Lakhani is not allowed to vote. She's supposed to be neutral.

How would you feel if the proposed law was to abolish elections and give Danielle Smith a lifetime dictatorship?

No doubt the examination of the proposed law would be deep and thorough, but if her office deemed it to run afoul of the constitution then I think some common sense can prevail here:

1. the outcome of this unprecedented action would be an election sooner than later where the electorate can truly participate. In other words, this overreach by an unelected tyrant would lead to...more democracy.

2. It's sort of a conflict between two democratic 'conventions'...a tiny segment of population determining a new premier via party leadership vote vs. LG's interpreting their role in the most hands-off way

3. Timing - the fact that we are ~6 months away from a general election. If a party had campaigned on this bill and recently won their mandate in a general election, then the calculus could be a bit different.

4. I'm not sure on the exact process, but I would expect this kind of bill to inevitably end up in the courts. So the difference might be whether it is enacted and then challenged, or it is not enacted and the merry band of idiots need to make the case for it to proceed. Essentially the precautionary principle.

[Muta]

Well, this Twitter thread is a fun read; supposedly some info about the UCP policy proposals coming up at their AGM. Some real combative stuff in there if true:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1566958077907456003

[edslunch]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, this Twitter thread is a fun read; supposedly some info about the UCP policy proposals coming up at their AGM. Some real combative stuff in there if true:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1566958077907456003

In the past these policy proposals were a way for the grassroots to have their say, but generally were never adopted. I'm not convinced that will the case now given the direction the party has moved.

[Ozy_Flame]

He's not wrong.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1567235942452465664

[GordonBlue]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, this Twitter thread is a fun read; supposedly some info about the UCP policy proposals coming up at their AGM. Some real combative stuff in there if true:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1566958077907456003

Some crazy #### in there, to be sure.

There's more than one leadership candidate that would support many of those
policy proposals.

[Izzle]

This is like the UCP government in general right?

Propose a policy. Receive backlash. Back track.

Right??

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Muta

Well, this Twitter thread is a fun read; supposedly some info about the UCP policy proposals coming up at their AGM. Some real combative stuff in there if true:

https://twitter.com/user/status/1566958077907456003

#### me

[calf]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

#### me

Like...women go through all the things pregnancy brings, to full term, and then just get cold feet about raising a child? Do they really think that's a thing that happens?

[PsYcNeT]

It basically just men hanging a big sign around their neck that says "I am an absentee husband that paid little to no attention to my spouse during their pregnancy/pregnancies"

[iggy_oi]

Originally Posted by calf

Like...women go through all the things pregnancy brings, to full term, and then just get cold feet about raising a child? Do they really think that's a thing that happens?

They just know that if you’re successful in passing a ban on third term abortions it’ll be easier to get a ban on 2nd term abortions later and so on.

[timun]

It's nothing but so-con dog-whistling. In reality the vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast, vast majority of abortions are first and early-second-trimester, and if they happen in the third it's precisely because the physical health of the mother is in jeopardy or the fetus isn't viable. It's a stupid do-nothing policy that placates bible-thumpers, nothing more, but as iggy_oi rightly points out it opens the door to moving the ban threshold earlier and earlier...

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

He's not wrong.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1567235942452465664

Jesus. Kenney is the voice of reason within that group. What is this world (or at least Alberta) coming to?

[GGG]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

#### me

Sounds like a resolution to ban exactly zero abortions.

[Locke]

Wait...is incest actually a real problem? I know we have Edmonton in this Province, but seriously?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Fighting Banana Slug

Jesus. Kenney is the voice of reason within that group. What is this world (or at least Alberta) coming to?

Let's not forget this human jock strap stoked the fires of fury and farmed the rage for the last three years trying to play up to both sides. He may sound reasonable in this moment but he's about as innocent in all this as a petulant two year old under oath.

[Fuzz]

In a Tuesday news release, Smith outlined how the legislation would work.

A special motion, passed via a free vote in the Alberta Legislature, would identify problematic legislation, explain the harm to Alberta and describe how the province and its agencies would not enforce the law.

If Ottawa believed Alberta was acting unconstitutionally, it would be up to the federal government to file a constitutional challenge.

Smith's description of the act states that Alberta could choose to ignore the court if it ruled in favour of Ottawa.

Premier Jason Kenney said Tuesday that such an act would turn Alberta into a "banana republic" that would frighten international investors, such as ones he met in South Korea earlier this month.

"The Alberta Sovereignty Act would be like kryptonite for them," Kenney said during an unrelated news conference in Calgary.

"They're interested in political stability, not political chaos. They're interested in a jurisdiction that respects the rule of law and the authority of the courts.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...574132?cmp=rss

I think the most depressing part of all of this is there are enough people in the UCP who have bought into this clown's utter, complete bull#### that she is the front runner. I just want to reach out and grab these people by the collar and give their ####ing head a shake. Like, how stupid do you have to be believe that this women is the future of Alberta? #### me. What a disaster.

[BlackArcher101]

Originally Posted by Fuzz

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmon...574132?cmp=rss

I think the most depressing part of all of this is there are enough people in the UCP who have bought into this clown's utter, complete bull#### that she is the front runner. I just want to reach out and grab these people by the collar and give their ####ing head a shake. Like, how stupid do you have to be believe that this women is the future of Alberta? #### me. What a disaster.

"They're interested in political stability, not political chaos. They're interested in a jurisdiction that respects the rule of law and the authority of the courts."


Oh man, you are hilarious Kenny. Political stability coming from you?