2020/2021 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Vinny01

If the Flames are trading Monahan I have a feeling they will be looking to add a top 6 center in another deal likely for one of Tkachuk or Gaudreau.

Something like:

To Sabres: Tkachuk, 1st 21, 2nd 22, Zary
To Flames: Eichel

To Jackets: Monahan
To Flames: Domi+1st 21 (TBay)

These deals definitely benefit the Flames in their efforts to do a retool. Getting Eichel allows them to add that elite talent they were clearly missing this year and gives them a number 1 C in his prime to move forward with. That deal costs the team the 1st round pick plus prospects so the Flames are able to recoup one of those assets by getting a later 1st in the Monahan deal. Domi is able to bring some of the sandpaper lost by Tlschuk going and his contract expires a year sooner than Monahan so gives the Flames cap flexibility when Gaudreau, and Mangiapane need raises.

Gaudreau-Eichel-?
Mangiapane-Lindholm-Domi
Lucic-Backlund-Dube

Ideally you find the top line RW somewhere but there is an option to put Lindholm in that spot and shift Domi/Dube to the middle.

I have always thought of Domi and the latest 1st for Monahan from Columbus made sense. Monahan has turned into a bit of a playmaker over the years, wonder if he and Laine would click.

Domi would replace some of the tenacity we lose in Tkachuk, and he too is a versatile C/LW that would perfectly compliment Lindholm and Mangiapane with his playmaking ability (when he’s on a roll). That would be an ideal 2nd line, having Domi - Lindholm - Mangiapane (90% this one) or Mangiapane - Domi - Lindholm.

Gaudreau, Eichel, and X would be a great 1st line. There’s always trying to go for Laine, but I think with Torts leaving they’re going to stick with keeping Laine.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Drunk Uncle

Monahan is a 26 year old who has been in the league for 7 years and if you throw out the anomaly years (2018-2019 and this year) he is a ~60pt ~30g center who's 200ft game is just ok. That is how Buffalo will see him.

I think there is zero chance that today anyone will see Monny as a 30 goal, 60 point centre with an OK 200 foot game. He’s too far removed from that guy, likely due to injuries.

I doubt even the Flames see him as that guy.

Monny will need to prove he’s that guy again before anyone will value him as such.


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[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I think there is zero chance that today anyone will see Monny as a 30 goal, 60 point centre with an OK 200 foot game. He’s too far removed from that guy, likely due to injuries.

I doubt even the Flames see him as that guy.

Monny will need to prove he’s that guy again before anyone will value him as such.


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Who do you think has more value:
-Monahan now after two poor seasons + injuries, but with 2 years left
-Monahan after next season, in which he gets 55 points in 75 games, but only has 1 year left on this deal

Probably the latter, right? But projecting 55 points is a pretty big "if". Especially since Johnny, Lindholm and Tkachuk appear to be a line moving forward.
Since this is fairly unlikely, I think they should trade Monahan this summer, even if they're trading low. Avoid the risk of another bad season.

[flambers]

Originally Posted by 1qqaaz

Who do you think has more value:
-Monahan now after two poor seasons + injuries, but with 2 years left
-Monahan after next season, in which he gets 55 points in 75 games, but only has 1 year left on this deal

Probably the latter, right? But projecting 55 points is a pretty big "if". Especially since Johnny, Lindholm and Tkachuk appear to be a line moving forward.
Since this is fairly unlikely, I think they should trade Monahan this summer, even if they're trading low. Avoid the risk of another bad season.

Monahan has had around 5 fairly major surgeries

I would think his current value is fairly low

If he stays with the Flames and has a rebound season, this could increase his value however after next season he would be on his last year of his contract.

If the speculation is true Flames tried to move him last offseason but the offers were not sufficient.

[Drunk Uncle]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

I think there is zero chance that today anyone will see Monny as a 30 goal, 60 point centre with an OK 200 foot game. He’s too far removed from that guy, likely due to injuries.

I doubt even the Flames see him as that guy.

Monny will need to prove he’s that guy again before anyone will value him as such.


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I think that's an overly pessimistic view on how other teams see Sean Monahan based on recency bias. Not saying you are wrong and I am right because neither of us really knows. If what you stated is true you 100% don't trade Sean Monahan IMOl because he holds more value to your team then his trade value would suggest.

[Lanny_McDonald]

It is funny the level of pessimism surrounding Monahan, but the same people are chomping at the bit to acquire another guy who has a worse injury requiring even more invasive and risky surgery, and willing to sell the complete farm to get him. It's really strange.

[DomeFoam]

If the Barclay Goodrow's and Blake Coleman's are still returning 1st round picks at the deadline next year I'm really not worried about obtaining some high quality assets for Sean should we try and deal him then.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by New Era

It is funny the level of pessimism surrounding Monahan, but the same people are chomping at the bit to acquire another guy who has a worse injury requiring even more invasive and risky surgery, and willing to sell the complete farm to get him. It's really strange.

Almost as if one guy is a #2 center at best (and probably not a center on a cup contender at all) and the other guy is an elite #1 center who would immediately become the most talented player in franchise history.

[GS Skier]

Originally Posted by New Era

It is funny the level of pessimism surrounding Monahan, but the same people are chomping at the bit to acquire another guy who has a worse injury requiring even more invasive and risky surgery, and willing to sell the complete farm to get him. It's really strange.

And the same downers are all saying, just like Francis, saying Monahan and Guadreau will get you nothing.

This morning the Radio guys were talking to Morganti from Philly. He couldn't have said it better. They would LOVE to aquire either of those two "Bona Fide Stars" in Philly!

So many Flames "fans"??? calling down our player values led by Francis (BTW I like listening to Francis but don't have to agree with him) and then dreaming of big fish in the same breath.

And the number of posters who don't seem to bother looking at NMC and NTCs and cap limits before they toss a trade this guy for that guy is almost crazy. Its like some of you don't care about contracts and caps and are just dreamers.

Then there's the posters who look at the 20 mill available on some team and neglect to note that's with just say 12-13 signed contracts. You can't just spend it all every team needs to save 3-4-5 million for the 750,000 pluggers they need to fill their rosters.

[TOfan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Yeah, Mangiapane is a core piece here. Mang is just a fantastic top-6 winger.

I could see Dube rather than Zary, but not Mang.

I’d even be more inclined to have it be Tkachuk and just draft picks. Tkachuk + ‘21 1st + ‘22 1st + ‘21 2nd would be cool to see. At this stage Buffalo has to be thinking of Wright/Bedard, so that could be pretty enticing. Sign Tkachuk long-term and give him the “C”, and then just have oodles of top-end prospects.

Something that caught my ear is Versteeg has said, twice over the past two weeks I believe, on his hit on the morning show is that we would look to move Gaudreau (doesn't believe the Sutter-Gaudreau relationship will work out over the course of a full season) and Mangiapane to bring in a C.

I was hoping the guys would have pressed him a bit as to which center he thinks would be a fit. but he did say he didn't think those two would get you a 1A C, but a 1B or a 2. It was a bit loose and not specific so you would have to listen to it (I would have to listen to it again) but he has definitely said he would move JG for a center and package Mangiapane as well if need be.

[sa226]

How different, value wise are Monahan and Laine?

Both are flawed players. Not particularly fleet of foot. Yes Laine is a pure goal scorer with a wicked shot, but he's only broken 40 goals once. Monahan has a history of consistent goal scoring and plays a tougher position. Laine has maturity issues, Monahan is a coachable guy with injury issues.

It's never fair to compare trades and player values. We're all just so ready to dump on our home players for grandiose reasons. I kinda agree, I don't see going deep into the playoffs with Monahan as your number 1 centre. But he is still a really good hockey player that plenty of teams would love to have.





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[Bonded]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Almost as if one guy is a #2 center at best (and probably not a center on a cup contender at all) and the other guy is an elite #1 center who would immediately become the most talented player in franchise history.

Oh man, Eichel is getting too much hype. That is a stretch.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by sa226

How different, value wise are Monahan and Laine?

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That is one of my preferred shake up trades. No clue if Columbus would go for it but like you said both players are flawed in different ways. I imagine Columbus wants to give Laine a run without Torts.

[Harry Lime]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Almost as if one guy is a #2 center at best (and probably not a center on a cup contender at all) and the other guy is an elite #1 center who would immediately become the most talented player in franchise history.

Alright, slow down there. Niewendyk, MacInnis, Makarov, Iginla and Fleury off the top of my head.

A herniated disk in his neck is a big injury. The fact that the Sabres might have stood in the way of surgery both indicates that they were aware that his value and production would drop after recovery. I agree that 85% of Eichel is still the best player on the Flames, but he will never reach the top five most talented in the franchise due to this injury. It reduces physical ability.

I'm sure that teams and GMs know this, and would make their offers accordingly. Some of the discussioni is way out of the bounds of reality. Tkachuk plus Valimaki is probably better than what the Rangers (Kakko and Lundqvist) or LA (Vilardi and Madden) would offer. The likes of Fox and Byfield are off the board.

I'm sure that Buffalo is kicking itself for treating the player so poorly.

[Roof-Daddy]

Tkachuk ++ for Eichel
Gaudreau for Konecny
Monahan (+?) for Laine
Target Landeskog or Hall in free agency


Landeskog/Hall - Eichel - Laine
Mangiapane - Lindholm - Konecny

Drool worthy top 6 IMO

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Tkachuk ++ for Eichel
Gaudreau for Konecny
Monahan (+?) for Laine
Target Landeskog or Hall in free agency


Landeskog/Hall - Eichel - Laine
Mangiapane - Lindholm - Konecny

Drool worthy top 6 IMO

Keep Gaudreau if possible...rest is good

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by GranteedEV

Almost as if one guy is a #2 center at best (and probably not a center on a cup contender at all) and the other guy is an elite #1 center who would immediately become the most talented player in franchise history.

You're willing to roll the dice on a guy with a spinal injury? That's massive risk the team is assuming, especially with the return we're likely to pay and the $10M hit associated. The team would have to pour over his medical records and have their risk management team determine if it was a good idea.

On talent, Eichel would have to come to Calgary and really put up some impressive points a performance in another stratosphere to be considered the most talented player in team history. I won't even go into the cup winning team. There was a guy on the Flames that Gretzky called the most talented player he had ever seen or played with, so Eichel would really have to step his game up. Ironically the Magic Man also had similar problems with not being able to elevate his game or make players around him consistently better.

The thing that scares me the most about Eichel is I doubt he wants to play in hockey's hinterlands anymore. He's stated it himself, he only cares about his situation and his health. Having the most travel time in the league is likely not on his wish list, especially with a spinal injury. I'm not sure he would accept being in Calgary and may just sit it out until he forces another trade to an eastern based team where the travel is easier and less frequent. That would be catastrophic to the team. More risk than the team should be willing to take on IMO.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by New Era

You're willing to roll the dice on a guy with a spinal injury? That's massive risk the team is assuming, especially with the return we're likely to pay and the $10M hit associated. The team would have to pour over his medical records and have their risk management team determine if it was a good idea.

On talent, Eichel would have to come to Calgary and really put up some impressive points a performance in another stratosphere to be considered the most talented player in team history. I won't even go into the cup winning team. There was a guy on the Flames that Gretzky called the most talented player he had ever seen or played with, so Eichel would really have to step his game up. Ironically the Magic Man also had similar problems with not being able to elevate his game or make players around him consistently better.

The thing that scares me the most about Eichel is I doubt he wants to play in hockey's hinterlands anymore. He's stated it himself, he only cares about his situation and his health. Having the most travel time in the league is likely not on his wish list, especially with a spinal injury. I'm not sure he would accept being in Calgary and may just sit it out until he forces another trade to an eastern based team where the travel is easier and less frequent. That would be catastrophic to the team. More risk than the team should be willing to take on IMO.

What would be the alternative path to take to find a top tier #1 centre?

There are risks and reasons to not do almost anything. Jack Eichel is in a tier of centre that we haven't had since 1995, and the last player of this quality/age to be traded was Joe Thornton in 2005. Acquiring Thornton worked out great for San Jose, and outside of the team deciding to tank (can't imagine that happening) - the Flames won't get the opportunity to draft a player of this quality.

If not Eichel, then what? What does this team do to actually improve itself in a meaningful way that will not only keep them in the top-16, but hopefully move them into and keep them in the top-10 for years to come.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

What would be the alternative path to take to find a top tier #1 centre?

Draft and develop one.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

What would be the alternative path to take to find a top tier #1 centre?

There are risks and reasons to not do almost anything. Jack Eichel is in a tier of centre that we haven't had since 1995, and the last player of this quality/age to be traded was Joe Thornton in 2005. Acquiring Thornton worked out great for San Jose, and outside of the team deciding to tank (can't imagine that happening) - the Flames won't get the opportunity to draft a player of this quality.

If not Eichel, then what? What does this team do to actually improve itself in a meaningful way that will not only keep them in the top-16, but hopefully move them into and keep them in the top-10 for years to come.

This is true but in this case the risks and reasons are magnified beyond any normal sort of decisions.

1. The cost to acquire will be prohibitive. Franchise altering in that it will be 2-3 existing roster players AND draft picks.

2. The salary attached. As soon as you get into 10M a year it also has a ripple effect on the rest of the roster. If the player is a game changer then it makes it doable and even well worth it. That is not a sure thing here.

3. His health. This isnt an ACL that has a 99% chance of getting back to normal. This is a herniated disc in his neck. Nevermind hockey, this type of injury can be life changing. Buffalo hasn't agreed to the surgery yet, but that is Eichels desire. Has there ever been a hockey player come back from this kind of procedure? Again the salary comes into play here because even if he never plays again, the acquiring team is on the hook for 50M dollars. That is a huge consideration for anyone.

So ALL that has to be considered before making this trade, it isnt black and white.

IF he gets back to almost perfect health then yes it is probably a good move in the end.

As for where else do you get a guy like him? You wait until the next opportunity arises to get one whether that be drafting high or by trade for a less questions attatched player.