[Trade] Andersson (50% retained) to Vegas for 27 1st, cond 28 2nd, Whitecloud, Wiebe

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

So it seems Conroy asked Ras camp if there were teams he'd consider extending with so they could work on a sign and trade type of deal with a bigger return for the Flames. They gave him a short list of teams and CC ground away with those teams on acceptable trades, once agreed to they gave those teams permission to talk to Ras camp and those discussions were fruitless, probably because Ras ask is way too high. So ultimately Ras agent said no extension will be agreed to with any team. So CC ground away on those sign and trade deals for nothing and had to settle on the best rental return.

Gotta be frustrating for CC. Especially when some of the bigger return prices were leaked and it makes this return look worse in comparison to some people.

And why exactly should Ras maximize the return for the team dumping him?

(And weaken the team that wants him)

He has a big life decision to make. Why rush it?

[bigrangy]

My initial impression is I hate half measures. Valuing Whitecloud is just more of the same Miromanov, Kuzmenko, etc level pissing around that keeps the team mid and keeps the prospects out of the lineup.

But, I like Whitecloud, and I don’t think the difference between him and Andersson is a 1st (hopefully 2 firsts) and a lottery ticket. So in terms of value it seems pretty good.

I laugh a little bit at Vegas getting Andersson though, Handersson has already proven to be an awful pairing so it will be funny to watch that implode again. Stone and Eichel will probably be able to power them past anything at least to the western final though. This satisfies the E=NG requirement so honestly it’s all good.

[Ped]

I thought the advanced stats shows that Hanifin-Andersson were a very good pairing but I could be remembering wrong.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

And why exactly should Ras maximize the return for the team dumping him?

(And weaken the team that wants him)

Where did I say he should do that?

Let me answer my own question. I didnt.

[DeluxeMoustache]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

Where did I say he should do that?

Let me answer my own question. I didnt.

No you didn’t say that, but what it sounded like you found must be frustrating for Conroy was directly a product of that, no?

Therefore reasonably expected. And perhaps not so frustrating to a guy going in with eyes open?

[bax]

Originally Posted by Ped

I thought the advanced stats shows that Hanifin-Andersson were a very good pairing but I could be remembering wrong.

You’re right. Not sure what the above poster is remembering, but Hanifin and Andersson consistently out chanced and outscored the opposition when they were paired together

[Claes]

Originally Posted by DeluxeMoustache

And why exactly should Ras maximize the return for the team dumping him?



(And weaken the team that wants him)

Maybe him being loyal to the team drafted him and gave him a chance being a pro? Haven't the Flames tested him well for a decade?

But I don't think that played a role in him deciding what to do. I think he bets on himself continuing having a great season with strong play in the Olympics and what he hopes to be a long playoff run, and increase his market value before signing a long life-altering contract.

[CalgaryFan1988]

At the end of the day Andersson didn't do the Flames any favors, he looked out for himself and that's well within his rights because it is his life and it's business. Shouldn't be any hard feelings from any fans.

That being said, I hope Conroy learned from this and tries to maximize players values in the future. Looking at the big picture and trading players that aren't part of the future with term instead of trading them as rentals and getting minimal return.

We have few assets, these returns are hurting us long-term.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Jay Random

The benefit of moving Ras out was to get futures. Whitecloud was a throw-in to make the cap and roster numbers work. Vegas could not have kept Whitecloud and added Andersson, even at 50% retained, without getting rid of another player in a side deal. They could have traded a defenceman lower on their depth chart, but Conroy did not want any of those.

The team had seven defencemen on the active NHL roster before, and still has seven. That's the minimum number that allows for an injury replacement or a healthy scratch. No team likes to carry fewer than seven. When Parekh comes back from his conditioning stint, there will be plenty of time to trade away another body to make room.

Whitecloud was not a throw in. He was Vegas number 4 D man and he is signed for 2 more years after this one. He is part of the return and takes away from the future focused assets. If the Flames flipped him for a return this wouldn't be an issue, but that is unlikely.

Sure, the Flames need players to fill minutes. But this is a supposedly rebuilding team that put Kuznetsov on waivers to keep Bean, etc. It's more of the same. Holding on to an asset too long, then targetting an replacement in the return, all in pursuit of the mighty 14 OA pick.

[fotze2]

Originally Posted by Claes

Maybe him being loyal to the team drafted him and gave him a chance being a pro? Haven't the Flames tested him well for a decade?

But I don't think that played a role in him deciding what to do. I think he bets on himself continuing having a great season with strong play in the Olympics and what he hopes to be a long playoff run, and increase his market value before signing a long life-altering contract.

The draft is not for the player, it for the league and teams benefit specifically designed to prevent the player from having free will to play where they want. Its the orderly distribution of talent. Loyalty is a two way street.

If your employer prevented you from going to work across the street for double the pay. While no one would like that.

[PeteMoss]

Originally Posted by kehatch

Whitecloud was not a throw in. He was Vegas number 4 D man and he is signed for 2 more years after this one. He is part of the return and takes away from the future focused assets. If the Flames flipped him for a return this wouldn't be an issue, but that is unlikely.



Sure, the Flames need players to fill minutes. But this is a supposedly rebuilding team that put Kuznetsov on waivers to keep Bean, etc. It's more of the same. Holding on to an asset too long, then targetting an replacement in the return, all in pursuit of the mighty 14 OA pick.

For Vegas... They need to move someone to get cap complaint. He's not a typical cap casuality in that he has value given his low hit but Vegas needed to move some more salary to activate their LTIR players.

[Ped]

Saw this morning somewhere that by adding Whitecloud and the Flames retaining, it gives Vegas enough room to add McNabb back from LTIR, so there's a reason they included him. It doesn't mean he's a throw-in, and he's not Miromanov - he is a legitimate NHL player, but I think he's only top-4 on Vegas because of their lack of depth.

[kehatch]

Originally Posted by Claes

Maybe him being loyal to the team drafted him and gave him a chance being a pro? Haven't the Flames tested him well for a decade?

The Flames didn't give him a chance out of charity. Andersson covered his end and then some by doing his job, with an incredible value contract. He owed the Flames nothing, and was under zero obligation to sign an extension to get the Flames a better return.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by CalgaryFan1988

At the end of the day Andersson didn't do the Flames any favors, he looked out for himself and that's well within his rights because it is his life and it's business. Shouldn't be any hard feelings from any fans.

That being said, I hope Conroy learned from this and tries to maximize players values in the future. Looking at the big picture and trading players that aren't part of the future with term instead of trading them as rentals and getting minimal return.

We have few assets, these returns are hurting us long-term.

Twice the player did not do him any favours. If a player does not sign in the summer, he probably isn't signing during the season. Ras was coming off a bad season and maybe the offers got better as he played better this season. But his ask probably increased too. Sounds like term was a big deal for the Flames, they probably were not interested in 8 years at all, and Ras more than likely 100% wants 8 years. If that is not going to change for both parties in the summer, why would Ras in the middle of a one of his best seasons suddenly settle.

These deals need to happen in the summer move forward IMO. I would not be shocked if this was not the best offer over the last 6 month.

[wpgflamesfan]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The Flames are one of the youngest teams in the NHL and will likely be younger in a month. This idea they don't play young players is false.

That’s absolutely false when you factor in usage.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

As always, with trades that involve picks, especially picks several years down the road, it becomes difficult, if not impossible, to evaluate the absolute quality of this trade.

We saw this with the other recent trades for picks. Everyone was pretty upset at the time. Then you start making those picks and see the young quality talent added to the system and eventually the starting roster.

Take the Markstrom trade alone. At the time, people were freaking out that the Flames didn't get enough for him, saying they could have done better if it happened earlier. Many posters here panned the trade, saying that Bahl wouldn't be anything better than a 6/7. The pick alone didn't factor into anyone's thinking because we didn't know who it would be yet. Fast forward, and we now have Bahl, who I think at minimum is a strong #4 shutdown d-man on a contending team (think Mikkola for a recent comparable on a cup winner), and Cole Reschny, who projects to be a really good two-way center with character and scoring ability, seen recently on the World Junior roster for Team Canada (not an easy roster to crack). Reschny likely ends up as a 2nd line center on a good team, maybe a 3rd line center at the very worst. All of that for Markstrom, who's play has declined and is now considered an expensive back up in New Jersey.

I love Andersson, but he was playing at his absolute peak this year, and he's likely near the peak levels for his career. In a couple years, his play will probably start to decline, and at that point, we'll have drafted a player that will likely be an important roster piece for our contention window, just like Reschny. There are several other pieces involved here as well that could contribute more than we could imagine right now, or at least mitigate against that 1st round pick not working out as anticipated (see: Honzek).

The bet made by Conroy here is that Vegas is going to age out of their contention window in 2 years, and those picks will suddenly have a lot more value than they do right now. In 2 seasons, they will only have Eichel, Marner, Hertl, and Barbashev (final year) signed as forwards, and Theodore, Hanifin, Korczak and McNabb signed on defense, unless Andersson signs as well. However, given that he seems intent on testing free agency, Andersson signing with Vegas isn't 100%. That's an okay core of players, but the parity around the league shows us that it doesn't take much to have a down year or to suddenly fall out of contention (look at Winnipeg, Toronto, and even Florida as examples).

When you also consider that Vegas has little to nothing coming up in their prospect base to replace their older supporting cast, it seems to me that it's a really good bet to take the Vegas picks later, especially if they have a chance to win the cup this year. Sure it hurts our 2026 draft pick if they win, but if they do, the 2nd becomes a first in 2028, and that pick could be quite high unless they rapidly retool and sign a bunch of UFAs to surround that core. Let's also not forget that in 2 years, that core is going to be in it's early to mid 30's, and no longer at their peak.

These are the kind of moves that really do have long-term thinking involved. If you were hoping for a massive win that pays off right now, then you don't have the patience for an actual rebuild. You know, the thing the entire base is clamoring for. This is what it looks like. Let it play out.

[Fan69]

This is frustrating as a fan as i see three different instances where we took less trying to be the good guy.

To my mind the johnny situation was no different. Then Hannafin now Rasmus.

Now i do believe it was a decent not spectacular trade but this getting caught last minute has to stop.

[Scroopy Noopers]

Originally Posted by Claes

Maybe him being loyal to the team drafted him and gave him a chance being a pro? Haven't the Flames tested him well for a decade?.

… would you say the same thing to an employee of a company who wasn’t an pro athlete? This is a terrible take.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by PeteMoss

For Vegas... They need to move someone to get cap complaint. He's not a typical cap casuality in that he has value given his low hit but Vegas needed to move some more salary to activate their LTIR players.

Also they were carrying a full 23 man roster and were at the 50 contract limit. They had to move a defenceman to fit Andersson in, so this was the only way, unless they traded Whitecloud to a different contender for a pick

[TherapyforGlencross]

If we bottom out the rest of this season, land a top 5 pick next year in 2027, i see our rebuild finishing by the end of next year.

Top 6 Forwards:
Reschny
Potter
Gridin
Coronato
Outside chances of Wyttenbach, Basha, Honzek.

Defence:
Parekh
Bruz
Kuz
Outside chances of Mews, Morin

Goalies
Wolf
Cooley

Our goaltending is already set for year to come. Adding four more first round players in 2026 and 2027 adds to potential top 6 players. We are rounding out quite nicely and Conroy has done an exceptional job in stockpiling the cupboard. One or two more defenceman would do Calgary wonders, along with adding a top drafted centre either this year or next.