[News] Flames and Treliving agree to part ways. Maloney promoted to PoHO and interim GM

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

Yeah there is but the coach shouldn't be such a negative that players don't want to be here.

It's hard enough attracting talent when drafted talent you have some control over don't want to stay and the cosch played a part in it he should get the boot.

When the owner is picking his buddy to coach and keeps him around over talent we have a issue.

Yeah, that probably isolated Brad in more ways than he wanted. I don't disagree that Sutters abrasive style can rub some players, but the point made today about the owners involvement being a key factor; That is interesting. Those players may have stayed regardless of what Sutter did, but Brad was limited and handicapped by the owners meddling.

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I will admit that this is probably as low as I've felt as a Flames fan.
The inside knowledge from a couple posters, who I think have a high degree of credibility, confirms what many of us thought to be true: that the owner was not allowing the GM operate the club as he wanted to.
Now it is perfectly reasonable that an owner would have to approve large contracts to players, but obviously there is far more at play than that.
I think we had a really good GM trying his best, but being undermined.
So I have little faith that a new GM will have much better luck.

Hard to feel optimistic right now.

This is arguably the worst run franchise in the NHL when you factor in the building fiasco.

Inside knowledge from whom about what?

In the space of posts over time I might be missing plenty, but words like 'confirms' and 'obviously' tell me people have probably taken off their thinking hat.

The team has done little through a combination of bad decisions and bad luck. I exonerate no one, but 'worst run' is a nonsense level we are not even close to.

[GioforPM]

I’ve been in business meetings with Edwards, though years ago. And I’ve been in the car with him when he was on the phone to the GM - Coates or Button, I can’t recall the timeline (and didn’t care if I was listening). My impression was that he wasn’t overly meddling but big expenditure approvals were needed - so he would never pick what player to acquire, but he’d be in on what the offer was. He’s definitely not uninterested in the team’s success, but it is one of many businesses. He definitely is one of the smarter people you will meet, but he also thinks he is correct all of the time. He delegates but his staff know what he wants so the delegation is not to overly independent people.

I actually don’t think this is way outside any other team owner.

[All In Good Time]

Originally Posted by TheChief

Paulie do you show up in every thread on CP and bash Sutter? Because it sure seems like it.



We finally get a good coach and you wanna run him out after one season with league worst goal tending and losing two 100+ point forwards off the roster? Step back man and look at it.

You know, I’ve been reading posts (intriguing “insider” contributions and passionate opinions) and listening to interviews regarding the happenings of late and it seems to me that it’s still unfolding slowly. Even seravelli said this afternoon that it was “the flames” that went to ownership with the idea of wanting to extend Sutter

I’m wondering what he meant by “the flames”

Anyway

I keep coming back to the same two conclusions

It appears that Edwards is a cold, borderline nuts, relentless business person. That’s no real revelation

And

I’m really having a hard time rationalizing spending my entertainment dollars on watching extremely wealthy young men who travel from 5 star to 5 star hotels in chartered aircraft complaining that there aren’t enough zaccuzis in their dressing room and how they aren’t having fun because their boss is telling them what to do………as they lose their way to summer vacation

It’s getting hard to sympathize with that

Perhaps a shift in calving season might serve as a reality check

[Braden]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

The inside knowledge from a couple posters, who I think have a high degree of credibility, confirms what many of us thought to be true: that the owner was not allowing the GM operate the club as he wanted to.

This brings me back to an engagement party a few years ago now where I had a chance to meet and talk with Chad Johnson (this was a UFA summer after his season in Calgary) and he said that his agent and Brad had a basically agreed to a extension but Murray Edwards said no.

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

Inside knowledge from whom about what?

In the space of posts over time I might be missing plenty, but words like 'confirms' and 'obviously' tell me people have probably taken off their thinking hat.

The team has done little through a combination of bad decisions and bad luck. I exonerate no one, but 'worst run' is a nonsense level we are not even close to.

What franchise is worse than the Flames.
Arizona. I guess. So second worst.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Good to see that two different people with some Intel squash the "Sutter pushed certain players out" narrative. Not being in the know it is easy for people to speculate, but making stuff up and making assumptions just spreads more unnecessary trash. Appreciate the clarification.

It doesn’t take an anonymous insider to figure out that Edwards is the main problem. I’ve been saying it for a while as it should be pretty obvious by now.

[Mr.Coffee]

Originally Posted by DiracSpike

The main value of the franchise, unless you're the Leafs, is to be a 1/32 share of the NHL. If he or any of the owners wanted to just cash in they could have done it a while ago, they're all sitting on 10-20X capital appreciation. I really don't think they'd go through this 10 year wrestling match with the city just to sell when they get a new arena. And if they did, no one in the entire world is running to buy this team and privately fund an arena so if people want a new stadium and the team to stay here they should come to grips with that scenario you laid out. If it's not CSEC then it'll be some international group of investors from god knows where.

Counter point on CNRL, throughout the last 10 years they were the one company in town that didn't lay anyone off, and that directive was straight from the top. That's despite the fact that there are a lot of people working there that definitely could have been. They purchased international companies that were leaving this backwater basin and took on all their employees at the same wage they were making before, plus a boost for stock matching. They don't always play nice but there's a lot of people in town that owe their pay to them

It has been solid to not do layoffs, I agree. But the way he manages that company has been far more harmful to industry than good unless your name is Murray Edwards. He’s driven more people out of business than he’s employed and caused mass layoffs by the way that company operates which sure, is their right as a competitive business, but some of the practices are downright ruthless, cutthroat, anti-competitive and cross the line (IMO). CNRL screws over industry on a daily basis, let’s get real here. They’re kinda like Pembina or Tourmaline that way. You’re right though, at least they don’t just fire everyone after an acquisition like Tourmaline does.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

As long as Edwards is meddling as much as it sounds like, i have little hope of this organization putting a sustainably competitive team together.

The kind of moves he will greenlight set the team back mid-long term.

He needs to give the new GM the autonomy to implement their vision.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

Yeah, that probably isolated Brad in more ways than he wanted. I don't disagree that Sutters abrasive style can rub some players, but the point made today about the owners involvement being a key factor; That is interesting. Those players may have stayed regardless of what Sutter did, but Brad was limited and handicapped by the owners meddling.

But choosing a coach over your talent is just so dumb especially when you go over your GMS head to hire him.

It seems like Brad was in a no win situation. He did the best he could with what the owner approved.

Go back to the trade for Zucker and it wasn't completed because they couldn't get Edwards to approve it. What guy who wants final approval on deals go missing in trade deadline day?

Pretty sure Burke said we had a deal for Ben Bishop and contract done but couldn't get a hold of Edwards to give the final approval to it fell apart.

The same person who told me about Lindholm said Johnny came back to the Flames on day 1 of free agency after everything that happened and said hr would come back on the same deal at 7 years and Edwards told him to eff off.

Now people are saying they purposely structured the Huberdeau deal to look like Johnny's to stick it to him and funny enough you get the same situation with him disliking Sutter.

I would say one of the worst ownerships in the NHL indeed very accurate when you factor in the arena disaster.

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by Braden

This brings me back to an engagement party a few years ago now where I had a chance to meet and talk with Chad Johnson (this was a UFA summer after his season in Calgary) and he said that his agent and Brad had a basically agreed to a extension but Murray Edwards said no.

Wow, that would make it hard when you have players lined up but can't get the go ahead.

[GioforPM]

^^ Given how Chad went the rest of his career, if true, Murray made a good call.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I’ve been in business meetings with Edwards, though years ago. And I’ve been in the car with him when he was on the phone to the GM - Coates or Button, I can’t recall the timeline (and didn’t care if I was listening). My impression was that he wasn’t overly meddling but big expenditure approvals were needed - so he would never pick what player to acquire, but he’d be in on what the offer was. He’s definitely not uninterested in the team’s success, but it is one of many businesses. He definitely is one of the smarter people you will meet, but he also thinks he is correct all of the time. He delegates but his staff know what he wants so the delegation is not to overly independent people.

I actually don’t think this is way outside any other team owner.

That's when we had Harley though. He was probably not acting in this manner. After Harley, Edwards has seemed to weasel his way into being the dictator in charge.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Paulie Walnuts

That's when we had Harley though. He was probably not acting in this manner. After Harley, Edwards has seemed to weasel his way into being the dictator in charge.

He was already in charge by then. That’s why the GM was calling him for approval on a contract (and Edwards was not that pleasant on the phone either).

[DazzlinDino]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

^^ Given how Chad went the rest of his career, if true, Murray made a good call.

That is kind of a problem too, the guy on the outside who is not really part of the process, "and in many was not as qualified" making the calls. Maybe Chad was the right choice he made, but it still handicapped those involved in a short, or long term plan. How many of those potentially random decisions were lost opportunities for the Flames?

[Bend it like Bourgeois]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

What franchise is worse than the Flames.
Arizona. I guess. So second worst.

That's fn crazy.

3 hours north we have a franchise that blows chunks but won the right lottery at the right time (with several tries) and had a mayor who wanted an arena development area more than he wanted to flip the bird to pro sports.

A dozen other teams have been horrible for parts of the decade and are still no better than the team here now.

Accepting Arizona as the floor, go ahead and name the teams that are above the flames by record in the last 3 years. Go 5 if it makes you feel better.

I am not expecting a great Flames story, but 'worst run' is emotional nonsense. The Habs have been better? Ooh those Jets. Maybe it's the Canucks you are thinking of.
Or the Coilers who are your deadbeat neighbour who won the lottery and now drums around in his bitchin camaro as though the mustard stain on his wifebeater went away.

Edit: I'd add this is also the team that had everyone wear pride jerseys. They fired (at cost) Peters because he was a dick in the past. They support a million things and the leadership has proclaimed that engaging the community is a non-negotiable. Does all that scream 'worst run'?

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by DazzlinDino

That is kind of a problem too, the guy on the outside who is not really part of the process, "and in many was not as qualified" making the calls. Maybe Chad was the right choice he made, but it still handicapped those involved in a short, or long term plan. How many of those potentially random decisions were lost opportunities for the Flames?

I wasn’t being serious. I expect the issue wasn’t Chad. It was the amount of money Edwards was prepared to spend on a backup.

[Erick Estrada]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I wasn’t being serious. I expect the issue wasn’t Chad. It was the amount of money Edwards was prepared to spend on a backup.

Should that really matter to him seeing he lets the team spend to the cap ceiling? If he’s meddling to that extent then this team really is screwed.

[DFO]

I’d peg Edwards as a massive micro manager. That is pretty much the core tenet of CNRL’s management which he developed.

[Jason14h]

So Edwards nixed Ben Bishop, Johnson and Zucker

Maybe he is the smartest man in the room …..