2013/14 Prospect Stats & Updates Thread

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Sieloff looked like a Cory Sarich clone pre-injury. Not quite NHL ready, but not far off, possibly getting a call up like Wotherspoon is currently enjoying now. That injury derailed things for sure. Whether or not he bounces back next year is still up in the air, but his illness wasn't something that should hamper him much physically.

Except that Sarich doesn't skate well and Sieloff doesn't have that problem. Not to mention that Sarich only threw the occasional spectacular hit. Fans seem to remember him being more physical than he was on a regular basis. Sieloff brings it consistently from what I've seen/heard.

From what I've seen of Sieloff I think he has a higher upside than Sarich. Hopefully the injury won't derail his career.

[Caged Great]

I'd personally rank them

1. Monahan
2. Gillies
3. Gaudreau
4. Poirier
5. Baertschi
6. Sieloff
7. Klimchuk
8. Ortio
9. Granlund
10. Jankowski
11. Wotherspoon
12. Kulak
13. Culkin
14. Knight
15. Reinhart

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Except that Sarich doesn't skate well and Sieloff doesn't have that problem. Not to mention that Sarich only threw the occasional spectacular hit. Fans seem to remember him being more physical than he was on a regular basis. Sieloff brings it consistently from what I've seen/heard.

From what I've seen of Sieloff I think he has a higher upside than Sarich. Hopefully the injury won't derail his career.

No comparison is ever going to be dead on. Most comparisons are at best 90% correct, and the comparison between the two is in that ballpark. Their differences are exactly what you listed.

If Sieloff can become that type of steady shut down 4-6th type that Sarich was on Tampa and with us, then I'll be pleased.

That would be a very useful piece once we're on the upswing.

[saXon]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Sure. But pre-injury he looked like our best d-man prospect. His development was looking ahead of the curve as well as he was still junior eligible but was going to play in the minors at age 19.

How much losing one year may set him back is up for debate. I think people are giving him the benefit of the doubt. It will be interesting to see if he can make it back this year. A playoff run would probably help his development quite a bit.

He's a pretty unique prospect. He just loves playing physical.

I contracted a really bad flu, or what I thought was the flu (could have been something worse) that put me on my back for close to a month. Even after doctors visits, and prescriptions filled, it took close to a full month and a half to clear out of my system.

Even then, it took about 6 full months to fully recoup and recover my strength at the gym to where it was.

I have no doubt Sieloff will bounce back fully, and remain the heavy hitter he was. He's very young, and has some of the best medical and fitness staff available.

[Vulcan]

I don't think Sieloff is big enough to make a career as a hitting defenceman in the NHL.

[edslunch]

Nm

[Parallex]

Originally Posted by edslunch

I don't get the love for Sieloff. He had a lot to prove esp. following his extended absence

I don't either. He's played all of 47 league games since being drafted and of the admittingly few games I've personally seen he didn't really stand out as anything special.

[GreenLantern]

I think early on in Sarich's career he was a lot more physical, nagging injuries and the general grind of playing that way really slowed him down. He used to train at my gym in the off season and the guy would be covered in athletic tape, always nursing something. Definitely takes its toll over time.

If Sieloff is half as physical as Sarich was early on I would be happy.

[The Fonz]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I'd personally rank them

1. Monahan
2. Gillies
3. Gaudreau
4. Poirier
5. Baertschi
6. Sieloff
7. Klimchuk
8. Ortio
9. Granlund
10. Jankowski
11. Wotherspoon
12. Kulak
13. Culkin
14. Knight
15. Reinhart

You dropped Knight from #6 to #14 in 7 months?

What happened to:

Originally Posted by Caged Great

Knight is pretty much a lock to be a quality 2nd/3rd line C

For as long as you continue to use absolute values to project prospects, I will continue to dig them up down the road.

You said in the very same thread where I got the above quote from that unless Knight was injured, he was a sure thing to start the season with the Flames.

"Sure thing" should never be used in describing prospects, especially ones who have yet to even play a pro game.

[Calgary4LIfe]

Sarich was very physical for a long time. Definitely slowed down.

As Flames Draft Watcher stated above though - Sieloff is definitely a better skater than Sarich ever was. Another thing in the 'plus' category is Sieloff's first pass - much better than Sarich's ever was (though Sarich I think was a bit underrated in this category). Sieloff is a better puck mover - not necessarily projected to be in any way offensive, but a good puck-mover out of the zone.

If Sieloff develops into a Sarich clone, it is a huge win though. Sarich was a huge part of Tampa's team when they won the cup, and was a big part of the Flames for most of his tenure here (minus the last couple of years). Seems to be a pretty big part suddenly in Colorado again too. I HOPE Sieloff develops into Sarich.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Is Sean even considered a prospect anymore? If not, my top 10 goes:

1. Gaudreau
2. Poirier
3. Klimchuk
4. Gillies
5. Baertschi
6. Ortio
7. Granlund
8. Jankowski
9.Wotherspoon
10. Sieloff

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

I don't think Sieloff is big enough to make a career as a hitting defenceman in the NHL.

Don't think he any smaller than guys like Mike Peca or Kronwall. Both big hitters, especially the sub six foot Peca. Scott Stevens was only an inch taller than Sieloff wasn't he?

I don't see the problem. Will he injure himself sometimes? Probably. Doesn't mean he won't have a decent career as a very physical player.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Don't think he any smaller than guys like Mike Peca or Kronwall. Both big hitters, especially the sub six foot Peca. Scott Stevens was only an inch taller than Sieloff wasn't he?

I don't see the problem. Will he injure himself sometimes? Probably. Doesn't mean he won't have a decent career as a very physical player.

Exactly. Rhett Warrener wasn't much bigger then Sieloff is currently, if Sieloff adds ten pounds and keeps his good skating he'll be okay. Th style of play will wear him down eventually but can't see it being a hinderence.

Shame he's lost a year at 19, that's the biggest and only real worry.

[SeanCharles]

Monahan
Gaudreau
Baertschi
Poirier
Gillies
Granlund
Ortio
Klimchuk
Jankowski
Knight
Sieloff
Wotherspoon
Rienhart
Arnold

[Dienasty]

I am not sure where these scouting reports are coming from on Pat Sieloff, considering he has played 47 games in 2 seasons, and a couple WJC games.

As for comparing him to Sarich I think people are a little optimistic. Tough to compare a kid to a veteran who has played of 15 seasons in the NHL and was a shut down player for a Stanley Cup team. Let's not go crazy here.

As of now he has missed 1.5 seasons that will hamper his development significantly. I will hold any judgement on him until I see him actually play more then a couple games.

[devo22]

I'm always interested in such rankings ... pretty interesting to compare them to your own assumptions. However, I'd also like to know what the emphasis is when someone ranks prospects. Is it ceiling, probability of making the NHL, probability of reaching their potential ... there really are numerous ways to slice it. That's where HF rankings seem so weird sometimes. They have always been really high on Reinhart, although most people would agree that he probably won't be more than a 3rd line forward in the NHL. At the same time, skilled forwards like Poirier and Granlund, who have a higher ceiling than Reinhart, are ranked far behind Max Power. Confusing if you ask me.

If it comes to "highest ceiling", I'd rank them:

1. Gaudreau
2. Monahan
3. Baertschi
4. Jankowski
5. Poirier
6. Gillies
7. Granlund
8. Klimchuk
9. Ortio
10. Agostino

when it comes to "probability of making the NHL full-time", I'd probably have guys like Knight, Reinhart, Arnold, Wotherspoon and Sieloff in my top 10. Not very high bust potential, but not very high ceiling (largely bottom six forwards and #4-#5 defensemen).

[868904]

Originally Posted by Dienasty

I am not sure where these scouting reports are coming from on Pat Sieloff, considering he has played 47 games in 2 seasons, and a couple WJC games.

My scouting report comes only from watching Sieloff in a small sample size of games at the OHL, WJC, and prospect tourney, and exhibition games. What I see with my own eyes is a very good skater. I made the comparison earlier in the year, but he skates like Phaneuf use to before the hip injury, and with Sieloff's competitive nature and desire to throw hits, he reminds me of Phaneuf minus the offensive instincts.

I think Sieloff at his best will be a Phaneuf without the offense.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by Caged Great

I'd personally rank them

1. Monahan
2. Gillies
3. Gaudreau
4. Poirier
5. Baertschi
6. Sieloff
7. Klimchuk
8. Ortio
9. Granlund
10. Jankowski
11. Wotherspoon
12. Kulak
13. Culkin
14. Knight
15. Reinhart

How do Gaudreau and Poirier jump Sven?

How do two prospect who might not even get signed ahead of Reinhart (who Ward said likely won't be coming back to AHL) and Knight (a prospect you were so high on before)?

How does a professional producing prospect in Granlund fall behind Klimchuk?

Your list has too many flaws.

[Da_Chief]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

Is Sean even considered a prospect anymore? If not, my top 10 goes:

1. Gaudreau
2. Poirier
3. Klimchuk
4. Gillies
5. Baertschi
6. Ortio
7. Granlund
8. Jankowski
9.Wotherspoon
10. Sieloff

Gaudreau the top prospect in the system? C'mon now. It really is all about what have you done for me lately.

[Caged Great]

Originally Posted by The Fonz

You dropped Knight from #6 to #14 in 7 months?

What happened to:



For as long as you continue to use absolute values to project prospects, I will continue to dig them up down the road.

You said in the very same thread where I got the above quote from that unless Knight was injured, he was a sure thing to start the season with the Flames.

"Sure thing" should never be used in describing prospects, especially ones who have yet to even play a pro game.

I still think Knight has that in him, it's not like I said he was garbage. I dropped him because I am liking other prospects' potential as well. The difference from 6, sieloff and 15 is not a huge gap surprisingly. I think that all of them and I mean all of them could and will become solid NHLers.

I could re-order any of them and put them in different spots and each of them would make sense.

It's the same thing with Gaudreau, Sven and Poirier. Each of them is looking to be a top 6 forward with first line upside. Any order of each would make sense as long as they are together and not dropped behind several other players.

It's also difficult to rank players that play different positions together because you might overrate some and underrate others. If the list of forwards is rated like this, there's not much to argue about.

1. Monahan
2. Gaudreau
3. Poirier
4. Baertschi
5. Klimchuk
6. Granlund
7. Jankowski
8. Knight
9. Reinhart

2 through 4 are about equal, 5 through 7 are very close and 8-9 are just behind them.

Also, with Klimchuk being ahead of Granlund in my list, Granlund has performed well, but I think Klimchuk has higher upside.