Brienne will be the one to wound him and then the Brotherhood will show up to capture Brienne. Ayra will see them and flee because she doesn't want to be captured again, just before Lady Stoneheart shows up. End season.
Pretty good episode, I kind of thought Tyrion's part could have been better, given how he's been killing it the past few episodes, though I think it was maybe the writing could have been a bit better. Or maybe just my expectations were too high.
The Shae twist was pretty good idea.
The look between Jon and Melisandre was cool.
Bran gets to where he's going, Arya is on her way, the pieces continue to move.
Really interested in what they do with next season.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
As a book reader I think it is hard to judge that scene.
We know what is coming, so maybe we want a lot more.
But if you are a pure TV watcher there should be enough there to blow your mind.
It may be tough for the writer not to over do it for the people who are currently being shocked by learning Shae was with Tywin, Trion kills Shae, then Tyrion kills Tywin. There is a lot there to digest.
__________________
"The problem with any ideology is that it gives the answer before you look at the evidence."
—Bill Clinton
"The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance--it is the illusion of knowledge."
—Daniel J. Boorstin, historian, former Librarian of Congress
"But the Senator, while insisting he was not intoxicated, could not explain his nudity"
—WKRP in Cincinatti
Kind of disappointed they didn't put in the rest, Jamie admission about Tysha mostly, since that really really drives home the pure hatred for Tywin, sets fire to it. I guess maybe that's the part that I'm missing.
Leaving that out does set a possibility for a significant departure from the books too, Tyrion basically burns any relationship with Jamie to the ground, but the show leaves them ok, so if in the future Tyrion gets any revenge on them it can only be Cersei. Though I guess having that revelation come later can still have Tyrion hate them all.
__________________ Uncertainty is an uncomfortable position.
But certainty is an absurd one.
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Kind of disappointed they didn't put in the rest, Jamie admission about Tysha mostly, since that really really drives home the pure hatred for Tywin, sets fire to it. I guess maybe that's the part that I'm missing.
Leaving that out does set a possibility for a significant departure from the books too, Tyrion basically burns any relationship with Jamie to the ground, but the show leaves them ok, so if in the future Tyrion gets any revenge on them it can only be Cersei. Though I guess having that revelation come later can still have Tyrion hate them all.
That and Jojen Reed dying are pretty big departures from the book. They've changed details from the books plenty of times before but to kill off a character that's still alive in the books is a pretty major shift. Guessing that Martin will have to kill him quickly in the next book as a result
That look says that Melisandre knows he's got king's blood.
I was almost expecting Stoneheart to be the final scene. Would've been the perfect ending, and got viewers buzzing for sure. I guess they're trying to save some surprises for season 5.
That and Jojen Reed dying are pretty big departures from the book. They've changed details from the books plenty of times before but to kill off a character that's still alive in the books is a pretty major shift. Guessing that Martin will have to kill him quickly in the next book as a result
Actually there's a theory out there that Jojen was killed by the woman at the tree and was part of the paste Bran ate.
As for the episode, missed the Tysha part but I guess that would have been confusing for show-watchers.
Really didn't like how they are altering the Jaime/Tyrion relationship as mentioned but also the Jaime/Cersei relationship - in the book he spurned her in the White Tower as part of the maturation of his character.
Don't know how they're going to do that now.
Also, wouldn't Cersei admitting the truth get her family kicked off the throne.
Didn't like the skeletons either - guess they are trying to make the Bran storline more action packed.
Thought Tyrion's whole scene was a bit meh. Which is too bad, since it was one of my favourite parts in the books. Also didn't like the skeleton part. Was that a show addition?
"You'll never walk again, but you'll fly" Will Bran warg into a dragon? Dunno why I never really thought of it before, but that would be awesome.
Glad they left stoneheart out, because I hate the character. Wouldn't have made sense in the episode either. Already a lot for viewers to process.
Great episode for sure though. Brienne/Hound fight was sweet.
Welp. That's the first episode I legitimately hated. Some of my gripes are budget-driven but some are just these guys #######izing the story in order to create clear and unambiguous heroes and villains which is contrary to the entire point of this enterprise.
1. Jojen dying... seems like he could be pretty important in Martin's narrative going forward, no? The "children" turned out to be one child, and the Bloodraven reveal was done in such a way as to essentially require me to ask "so ****** what?" Also they did a terrible job of the visual there; just looked like a guy stuck in a bush. Here is some art that approximates my mental picture of what he's supposed to look like:
2. Dany and the dragons was okay, not very emotionally powerful but hard to say how it could've been improved.
3. Could Stannis's arrival have been any more anticlimactic? When reading it that scene paralleled, for me, Gandalf's arrival at Helm's Deep to save the Rohirrim. Some of this is budgetary but the bird's eye view of lines of cavalry riding it to the rather ho-hum battle scene was yawn-inducing. Incidentally were all the giants sleeping?
4. Everything involving Brienne, Sandor and Arya was good. Best part of the episode, not a bad departure from the books.
5. Tyrion's stuff sucked. First, if you cut the largely pointless Ygritte-funeral scene, maybe you have enough screen time to cover how it was that Jaime broke him out so hilariously easily. But more importantly, the show has made Tyrion's character noticeably shallower, and Jaime's as well. The Tywin scene was lacklustre but even beyond that... the Shae thing makes no sense. She betrayed him, slept with his father who incidentally arranged to have him killed for a crime he did not commit, and upon seeing him, tries to stab him. Yet he's really broken up about killing her in self defense? F off. In those ten minutes the show demonstrated its massive, complete inferiority as a medium. This is one of the top 5 events of the whole series and I despised what they did with it.
I have not questioned much in the way of departing from the source material but that made me actually irritated watching it. If they'd done the Lady Stoneheart reveal properly at the end that might have salvaged it somewhat for me but they completely punted on that. Possibly she's just cut out altogether.
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Well I'm going to try to drift and out of this thread since I'm only part through DWD. If anyone do me favour and put spoilers around anything I haven't caught to, that be awesome, but I understand if you guys don't feel like loing it.
5. Tyrion's stuff sucked. First, if you cut the largely pointless Ygritte-funeral scene, maybe you have enough screen time to cover how it was that Jaime broke him out so hilariously easily. But more importantly, the show has made Tyrion's character noticeably shallower, and Jaime's as well. The Tywin scene was lacklustre but even beyond that... the Shae thing makes no sense. She betrayed him, slept with his father who incidentally arranged to have him killed for a crime he did not commit, and upon seeing him, tries to stab him. Yet he's really broken up about killing her in self defense? F off. In those ten minutes the show demonstrated its massive, complete inferiority as a medium. This is one of the top 5 events of the whole series and I despised what they did with it.
As a non-book reader I thought it made sense. There has been this build up over time for Shae thinking that Tyrion was ditching her for Sansa, and then Tyrion called her a whore and told her to leave which broke her heart. Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned, and all that. Then when she testified at the trial you could see that she hated Tyrion and wanted him to die, even though we as viewers knew that Tyrion still loved her the whole time.
So in walks Tyrion, not only did he break her heart but he is also supposed to be in jail and put to death. What else did you expect her to do? I doubt she should have just sat there and talked to him about her feelings.
Oh and I totally believe that Tyrion was broken up about killing Shae since that is the kind of guy he is, look how much it hurt him to send her away. Despite everything she did to him he still loved her, it is just like when a woman is with an abusive man and always goes back to him.
PS - Still waiting for that appearance of zombie Cat
Last edited by Hockeyguy15; 06-16-2014 at 07:25 AM.
Yeah, the Cat thing was what everyone was expecting would be the closing scene of the season. Taking a broad survey of book reader comments I've seen, everyone's pretty irked that it wasn't put in. Now it appears that that whole plot point might be omitted from the show altogether.
I didn't expect anything else from Shae, she's a jealous, conniving traitor who never really loved Tyrion. But the way he killed her there was just an obvious attempt by the show to make Tyrion the sympathetic hero. In the books,
Spoiler!
Quote:
"M'lord?" a woman's voice called.
That might have hurt me once, when I still felt pain. The first step was the hardest. When he reached the bed Tyrion pulled the draperies aside and there she was, turning toward him with a sleepy smile on her lips. It died when she saw him. She pulled the blankets up to her chin, as if that would protect her.
"Were you expecting someone taller, sweetling?"
Big wet tears filled her eyes. "I never meant those things I said, the queen made me. Please. Your father frightens me so." She sat up, letting the blanket slide down to her lap. Beneath it she was naked, but for the chain about her throat. A chain of linked golden hands, each holding the next.
"My lady Shae," Tyrion said softly. "All the time I sat in the black cell waiting to die, I kept remembering how beautiful you were. In silk or roughspun or nothing at all . . . "
"M'lord will be back soon. You should go, or . . . did you come to take me away?"
"Did you ever like it?" He cupped her cheek, remembering all the times he had done this before. All the times he'd slid his hands around her waist, squeezed her small firm breasts, stroked her short dark hair, touched her lips, her cheeks, her ears. All the times he had opened her with a finger to probe her secret sweetness and make her moan. "Did you ever like my touch?"
"More than anything," she said, "my giant of Lannister."
That was the worst thing you could have said, sweetling.
Tyrion slid a hand under his father's chain, and twisted. The links tightened, digging into her neck. "For hands of gold are always cold, but a woman's hands are warm," he said. He gave cold hands another twist as the warm ones beat away his tears.
Tyrion basically murders Shae in cold blood for her betrayal. Because of the way things play out in the books, her betrayal is portrayed as more humiliating so you're sort of cheering for it but it leaves a bad taste. Moral ambiguity is Martin's bailiwick. In the show, there really wasn't any at all.
That's a major issue but the omission of Tyrion's entire motivation behind his scene with Tywin is a bigger problem for me. The way Tyrion's escape was supposed to go down makes it possibly the most powerful part of any of the books from a purely character driven perspective. The characters' motivations the way they did it last night were extremely thin. If you'd like a summary of how it was meant to happen, I may actually go back and re-read it today.
Last edited by 19Yzerman19; 06-16-2014 at 08:00 AM.
