08-22-2011, 04:55 PM
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#1181
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Violating Copyrights
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I'm pretty sure I saw more than a few freeloading townies eating free hamburgers and hotdogs at the copperfield party in the park last Wednesday.
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08-22-2011, 05:20 PM
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#1182
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Calgary
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They were missionaries attempting to culture the unwashed masses.
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08-22-2011, 05:28 PM
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#1183
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jedi Ninja
According to recent census data, the only communities with densities significantly higher than new suburbs are as follows: Downtown, West End, Connaught, Victoria Park, Erlton, Bankview. If you live in these communities, enjoy your bridge and have a free latte on me. Everyone else: STFU, you live in sprawl too.
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Lower Mount Royal (my community  ) is actually the most dense. Probably would be Beltline, but the Stampede significanltly dilutes their density number because there's almost nothing on it and it's huge. Also map is only residential population and there is actually a lot of office and commercial in Beltline too. But density in and of itself does not make a complete community. Mix of housing types and tenure, walkability, presensence of commercial streets, employment opportunities, open spaces are all important factors. In this sense, although Hillhurst Sunnyside are of lower density (although still higher than average) than some other communities, they are highly complete communities.
here's the density ranges of all communities based on the 2011 census. Thanks to Boris2k7 at skyscraperpage.com
First, for all communities (regardless of community type):
The most dense communities (by UPA) don't change between the two maps as they are all built-out communities:
1. 32.4 UPA - Lower Mount Royal
2. 24.5 UPA - Mission
3. 23.8 UPA - Chinatown
4. 20.7 UPA - Bankview
5. 19.2 UPA - Beltline
__________________
Trust the snake.
Last edited by Bunk; 08-22-2011 at 05:35 PM.
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08-22-2011, 05:29 PM
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#1184
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Playboy Mansion Poolboy
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Close enough to make a beer run during a TV timeout
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flameswin
Don't even get me started on Copperfieldians. They are THE definition of sprawl. I can't believe us "townies" have to deal with those parasites....
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Fine, then stay away from our 7-11, Co-op gas bar; and stay the heck off our 153 bus while you're at it too!
And we should make our cheap liquor store beside 7-11 check for ID and chanrge you guys a surcharge.
I do think we can all agree it's those Cranstonites who are the real parasites. When was the last time you ever needed a windmill? But here they are; taking up valueable car wash line space.
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08-22-2011, 07:02 PM
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#1185
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memento Mori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bunk
Lower Mount Royal (my community  ) is actually the most dense. Probably would be Beltline, but the Stampede significanltly dilutes their density number because there's almost nothing on it and it's huge. Also map is only residential population and there is actually a lot of office and commercial in Beltline too. But density in and of itself does not make a complete community. Mix of housing types and tenure, walkability, presensence of commercial streets, employment opportunities, open spaces are all important factors. In this sense, although Hillhurst Sunnyside are of lower density (although still higher than average) than some other communities, they are highly complete communities.
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By your criteria then, many communities outside of the "core" are complete.
Of course, you may be including bums and crackwhores in your criteria.
__________________
If you don't pass this sig to ten of your friends, you will become an Oilers fan.
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08-22-2011, 07:29 PM
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#1186
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burn_this_city
I love that anyone against the pork barrel project is a sun reader. The great Ducay knows best though.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SebC
I would agree, somewhat, that is is pork. However, it's pork for an area of the city that's get absolutely shafted in terms of value-per-tax-dollar-paid at all levels of government.
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I'm not sure that "pork barrel" is an appropriate term to use to classify this project.
When it comes to actually getting things approved in the city, it's pretty hard for "pork barrell politics" to occur. The aldermen from wards 2, 4, 8, 9, 11 and 14 and the "alderman at large" mayor (to be complete - Strathcona resident and former ward 6 alderman) voted in favour of the Peace Bridge (and design of the St. Patrick's Island Bridge) motion, in addition to the alderman from ward 7 where the bridge is situated. I suppose one could argue that ward 8 is fairly proximate of the site. However, it's difficult to get even close to the amount of support needed if the project doesn't have a greater overall impact on the city, or if support for the next ward-level issue in another ward isn't attained by supporting the current one.
Furthermore, the nature of a lot of municipal projects is that there are relatively "localized projects" (a fundamental quality of pork barrel politics) in the context of areas of representation (wards) in a city. Securing money or jobs through the appropriation of government money in ward 1 or 10 or 14 is far less simple and clear cut an overall benefit for that ward specifically (when balanced against real or hypothetical alternatives in other wards) than it is for securing it for Shawinigan or Calgary-Egmont or Broward County, Florida. I would say that a trend for "favour" of a particular area, ward, or group of wards through appropriation of funds may be evident over time. However, I think classifying one particular municipal project as "pork barrel" is a misuse of the term and concept.
All that said, I can understand why burn_this_city responded negatively to Ducay's line of argument.
Last edited by frinkprof; 08-22-2011 at 07:36 PM.
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08-22-2011, 07:39 PM
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#1187
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fotze
Not if you include the homeless/crackies that use the insides of people's homes while they are at work.
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So that's what that smell is when I come home.
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08-22-2011, 07:53 PM
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#1188
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memento Mori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SebC
I would agree, somewhat, that is is pork. However, it's pork for an area of the city that's get absolutely shafted in terms of value-per-tax-dollar-paid at all levels of government.
Downtown Calgary subsidizes suburban sprawl, lost its hospital while the deep South gets a new one, and gets money sucked out through equalization.
At a city level, it's provincial money that had to be spent on something within the constraints of the earmark or would have been lost, so I'm damn glad the city decided to take it.
At the provincial level (and it's the province who's paying for it, not the city), it's kind of a silly earmark, but at least it's going to Calgary.
Overall though $25M is small trivial compared to the suburban development subsidies ($1000M). Where is the outrage over that? I'd gladly lose the bridge, if the subsidies went with it.
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Ah, the usual jumble of SebC nonsense.
Let's see:
- Bring up a hospital that was blown up ages ago. Forget about the Shumir Centre. Also conveniently forget about the fact that hospitals are provincially funded and managed. Strawman it anyhow because god damn, he can.
- Compare one small project versus an imaginary large one. Forget about things like the Talisman Centre reno, the west LRT, 16th Ave reno, Enmax powerplant, new 4th street underpass, Riverfront Ave reno, Peace bridge, Memorial Drive improvements... Blah blah blah, whatever...
- Forget about the $900million in surplus money that the city has lying around. Perhaps we all got shafted on taxes.
- Oh yeah, the farking airport tunnel. There's $400 million right there. When urban Calgary isn't good enough, take one's ass to Bali on planes fuelled by unicorn laughter. Oh wait...
__________________
If you don't pass this sig to ten of your friends, you will become an Oilers fan.
Last edited by Shazam; 08-22-2011 at 07:55 PM.
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08-22-2011, 07:55 PM
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#1189
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Crash and Bang Winger
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The issue with Sprawl isn't the density, it's the distance.
The costs of building and maintaining roads, schools, services and sewers out to the edge of a city is being subsidized by residents of established communities.
If the true cost of building and upkeep of a suburban neighbourhood was reflected in lot prices and taxes, ownership cost in the burbs probably would go up by at least 25%, if not more.
Last edited by trew; 08-22-2011 at 07:57 PM.
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08-22-2011, 08:08 PM
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#1190
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Franchise Player
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazam
By your criteria then, many communities outside of the "core" are complete.
Of course, you may be including bums and crackwhores in your criteria.
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Some are fairly complete communities. Very few oustside the really old part of the inner-city have walkable mainstreets though. Most are served by auto-oriented strip malls or regional big box complexes.
However the newest subdivisions are much more complete than those built in the 70s, 80s and 90s, and are certainly far more dense. Compare Scenic Acres to Mohogany for example.
Maybe you haven't been close to downtown lately but the inner-city is hardly over-run with "crack-whores and bums".
__________________
Trust the snake.
Last edited by Bunk; 08-22-2011 at 08:11 PM.
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08-22-2011, 08:21 PM
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#1191
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazam
Ah, the usual jumble of SebC nonsense.
Let's see:
- Bring up a hospital that was blown up ages ago. Forget about the Shumir Centre. Also conveniently forget about the fact that hospitals are provincially funded and managed. Strawman it anyhow because god damn, he can.
- Compare one small project versus an imaginary large one. Forget about things like the Talisman Centre reno, the west LRT, 16th Ave reno, Enmax powerplant, new 4th street underpass, Riverfront Ave reno, Peace bridge, Memorial Drive improvements... Blah blah blah, whatever...
- Forget about the $900million in surplus money that the city has lying around. Perhaps we all got shafted on taxes.
- Oh yeah, the farking airport tunnel. There's $400 million right there. When urban Calgary isn't good enough, take one's ass to Bali on planes fuelled by unicorn laughter. Oh wait...
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Not to say that SebC's post wasn't a little sloppy and his arguments a bit tenuous - for the reasons I think you've attempted to outline - but a few of your examples are themselves tenuous (if I am interpreting your intended point correctly).
Paid for (eventually) by Rivers District TIF
Largely argued to be benefiting, enabling and expediting greenfield development. While certainly a debatable point for another day and thread, either way I'd say it's an example that would support SebC's argument long before it would support yours. WestLRT could arguably fall in this category too. That's mostly working off my interpretation of the thrust of your argument. I think you would need to further define what you mean by "urban Calgary" if you think my interpretation might be off.
Suffice to say these things aren't as black and white as "suburbs vs. inner city." Not to say there isn't room for some generalities, but debating their basis has to go a lot deeper.
Last edited by frinkprof; 08-22-2011 at 08:23 PM.
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08-22-2011, 09:33 PM
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#1192
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: STH since 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMastodonFarm
Yeah, it's a pretty cool project.

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Thanks for posting this photo. I had no idea this was being built. I am going to email a copy to my cousin's wife in Edmonton. He is a member of the Princess Pats, that is still in Afghanistan until Nov.
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08-22-2011, 10:05 PM
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#1193
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memento Mori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frinkprof
Not to say that SebC's post wasn't a little sloppy and his arguments a bit tenuous - for the reasons I think you've attempted to outline - but a few of your examples are themselves tenuous (if I am interpreting your intended point correctly).
Paid for (eventually) by Rivers District TIF
Largely argued to be benefiting, enabling and expediting greenfield development. While certainly a debatable point for another day and thread, either way I'd say it's an example that would support SebC's argument long before it would support yours. WestLRT could arguably fall in this category too. That's mostly working off my interpretation of the thrust of your argument. I think you would need to further define what you mean by "urban Calgary" if you think my interpretation might be off.
Suffice to say these things aren't as black and white as "suburbs vs. inner city." Not to say there isn't room for some generalities, but debating their basis has to go a lot deeper.
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You define urban Calgary as you see fit for whatever argument you wish to win.
As far am I concerned, your viewpoint is shallow. You're an LRT supporter - it's only partially paid by its users, the rest taxpayer funded. You believe in urban living - you also don't hesitate to go on transcontinental flights. You rail against "sprawl" - but you seem to have a job that requires you to drive all over the place.
When you live the lifestyle you so covet, then you will have some credibility.
__________________
If you don't pass this sig to ten of your friends, you will become an Oilers fan.
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08-22-2011, 10:06 PM
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#1194
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memento Mori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frinkprof
I'm not sure that "pork barrel" is an appropriate term to use to classify this project.
When it comes to actually getting things approved in the city, it's pretty hard for "pork barrell politics" to occur. The aldermen from wards 2, 4, 8, 9, 11 and 14 and the "alderman at large" mayor (to be complete - Strathcona resident and former ward 6 alderman) voted in favour of the Peace Bridge (and design of the St. Patrick's Island Bridge) motion, in addition to the alderman from ward 7 where the bridge is situated. I suppose one could argue that ward 8 is fairly proximate of the site. However, it's difficult to get even close to the amount of support needed if the project doesn't have a greater overall impact on the city, or if support for the next ward-level issue in another ward isn't attained by supporting the current one.
Furthermore, the nature of a lot of municipal projects is that there are relatively "localized projects" (a fundamental quality of pork barrel politics) in the context of areas of representation (wards) in a city. Securing money or jobs through the appropriation of government money in ward 1 or 10 or 14 is far less simple and clear cut an overall benefit for that ward specifically (when balanced against real or hypothetical alternatives in other wards) than it is for securing it for Shawinigan or Calgary-Egmont or Broward County, Florida. I would say that a trend for "favour" of a particular area, ward, or group of wards through appropriation of funds may be evident over time. However, I think classifying one particular municipal project as "pork barrel" is a misuse of the term and concept.
All that said, I can understand why burn_this_city responded negatively to Ducay's line of argument.
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Fact is, no one but the aldermen themselves know why they vote the way they did.
Your long winded post is pure speculation.
__________________
If you don't pass this sig to ten of your friends, you will become an Oilers fan.
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08-22-2011, 10:08 PM
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#1195
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First Line Centre
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazam
You define urban Calgary as you see fit for whatever argument you wish to win.
As far am I concerned, your viewpoint is shallow. You're an LRT supporter - it's only partially paid by its users, the rest taxpayer funded. You believe in urban living - you also don't hesitate to go on transcontinental flights. You rail against "sprawl" - but you seem to have a job that requires you to drive all over the place.
When you live the lifestyle you so covet, then you will have some credibility.
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You sure know a lot about me.
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08-22-2011, 10:13 PM
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#1196
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Memento Mori
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frinkprof
You sure know a lot about me.
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Well, you do like to brag a lot.
You know what? I'd agree with everything you and the other new-urbanist posers on here write about if you guys actually bothered to live the way you claim modern first world living should be.
But man, you have guys like Flames in 07 on your side, who whines constantly about the suburbs, and yet owns a house in Shawnessy that he rents out.
So yeah, forgive me for being just a bit skeptical. It seems to me that you believe in your drivel only insofar as it doesn't affect your ability to earn money. So basically you're like Ferengis in the closet.
__________________
If you don't pass this sig to ten of your friends, you will become an Oilers fan.
Last edited by Shazam; 08-22-2011 at 10:22 PM.
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08-22-2011, 10:35 PM
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#1197
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Such a pretty girl!
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Calgary
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Please tell me they will finish that memorial wall instead of leaving it bare and rusty.
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08-22-2011, 11:58 PM
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#1198
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tromboner
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: where the lattes are
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shazam
Ah, the usual jumble of SebC nonsense.
Let's see:
- Bring up a hospital that was blown up ages ago. Forget about the Shumir Centre. Also conveniently forget about the fact that hospitals are provincially funded and managed. Strawman it anyhow because god damn, he can.
- Compare one small project versus an imaginary large one. Forget about things like the Talisman Centre reno, the west LRT, 16th Ave reno, Enmax powerplant, new 4th street underpass, Riverfront Ave reno, Peace bridge, Memorial Drive improvements... Blah blah blah, whatever...
- Forget about the $900million in surplus money that the city has lying around. Perhaps we all got shafted on taxes.
- Oh yeah, the farking airport tunnel. There's $400 million right there. When urban Calgary isn't good enough, take one's ass to Bali on planes fuelled by unicorn laughter. Oh wait...
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The Shledon Chumir is not a full service hospital. And yes, it's provincially funded. I guess you missed the part where the bridge is too. It's not coming out of property taxes.
Riverwalk for sure and maybe Enmax powerplant and 4th street underpass (not the easiest info to find quickly) are being funded by a Community Revitalization Levy . The East Village is paying for East Village improvements. I'd love if the suburbs had to pay for themselves. Yes there are examples of improvements downtown, but the net flow of money is outwards. Do you dispute that?
Surbanites don't use the airport? The magical surplus money somehow gets attributed to the inner city? Neither of those red herrings are relevant to the fact that the inner city is subsidizing the periphery.
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08-23-2011, 07:42 AM
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#1199
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Section 222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackArcher101
Please tell me they will finish that memorial wall instead of leaving it bare and rusty.
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I'm not sure what the finish will be but I doubt they'd leave it like that. Here's some more pics of the project:
Quote:
Originally Posted by From the site
This project is part of the second phase for the Memorial Drive Landscape of Memory, a 9.5-kilometre renovation to the parkway that forms a portion of Calgary's pedestrian pathway system. The focus of the second phase is on a series of interconnected public spaces, and the Memorial Plaza is the first of these new public spaces. The project addresses the client's programmatic directive to design a space to commemorate Canada's efforts during wartime, while at the same time offering a much needed contribution to Calgary's fledgling public realm by creating a four-season, 24-hour space.
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There are other projects planned too and once they are all done it should be a great stretch of pathway.
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Last edited by Rhettzky; 08-23-2011 at 07:45 AM.
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08-23-2011, 07:48 AM
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#1200
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Franchise Player
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Calgary
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I am with Fotze, the rusted plate can look cool if done right.
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