[News] Tkachuk notifies Flames he won't sign long term (The Athletic)

[Redlan]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

If Tkachuk's list of teams is very small and we aren't going to get a good return just bury him on the 4th line and screw him over for UFA

No, you accept the arbiters decision, you tell him to sit on his parents couch in St. Louis and wait. He should expand his list by the American Thanksgiving.

[Displaced Flames fan]

If the player was on any team but Calgary none of these returns would be viewed as unbelievable.

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by dino7c

Many of us have watched Tkachuk more than every GM in the league and most media members...I'm thrilled the hype train is going off the rails

Guy has amazing hands, good size, pisses people off...he skates worse than Lucic though and that isn't even exaggerating...the guy can't carry the puck up ice.

why are we lying to ourselves? how does a player with these qualities score 40 goals and 104 points?

[Jore]

Tkachuk's limitations and sub-par playoff performances are precisely why I wanted him moved even if Gaudreau were to stay. By forcing a move, he might be saving the team from itself. He's our martyr.

Originally Posted by Ashasx

why are we lying to ourselves? how does a player with these qualities score 40 goals and 104 points?

By playing with Gaudreau in a year where everything went right offensively.

[Braden]

Originally Posted by GS Skier

Wow the things that happen when you come home for lunch. Now were trading Hannafin as a throw in?

I mean hes american and has 2 years left with a modified 8 team no trade clause. Trade him now while theres value, unless we like getting backed into corners with our own players... sorry getting off topic

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Jaydee

If Tkachuk's list of teams is very small and we aren't going to get a good return just bury him on the 4th line and screw him over for UFA

And that helps Calgary how?

[madmike]

If the returns are awful they can just play him and flip him to a contender at the trade deadline.

Most they’d get from that is a low 1st, but if they aren’t even being offered that much at this point then they might as well hold on.

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jore

Tkachuk's limitations and sub-par playoff performances are precisely why I wanted him moved even if Gaudreau were to stay. By forcing a move, he might be saving the team from itself. He's our martyr.



By playing with Gaudreau in a year where everything went right offensively.

No way dude. Putting Chucky’s success on Johnny is ridiculous. We had two elite wingers, we now have none.

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

I realistically do not see Nemec nor Mercer being involved.

Nemec is their two week old #2 overall pick, so unless there was legit talks between NJD and CGY on the draft floor about orchestrating this...I don't see it.

Mercer is a guy who has already established himself as part of their core.

It certainly doesn't look like Bratt is someone NJD wants to pay big money to, so he makes sense as being available. Holtz is a big prize prospect that hasn't made his mark at the NHL yet, so I could see him being available - and ditto with their 2023 1st.

The weird thing with Nemec is the Marino trade. NJD's biggest immediate need (after G) was probably LHD, yet they traded LHD Ty Smith for RHD Marino.

Hamilton
Severson (1 to UFA)
Marino
Nemec

Perhaps they are really far apart on an extension with Severson and anticipate trading him? I could definitely see an RHD on the table...which one is probably contingent on a Severson extension or not.

The Haula trade is also interesting as he might take the 3C slot from Mercer...though it looks like Mercer ended the year on Hughes' wing. The Haula trade just seems weird and like a poor return for Zacha, though...similar stats but the guy they got is older and smaller with less team control...

Originally Posted by Mr.Coffee

Sorry this has been mentioned about 15 times now for all the dreamers but left unanswered.

Why is Tkachuk going to agree to go sign long term in New Jersey? Put yourself in his shoes. Would you sign there?

$$$$. NJD has a pretty darn clean cap moving forward and may simply be able to offer the most money. Though I'm not convinced they'll trip over themselves to do so


I wonder 2 things:
- do Hamilton and Tkachuk get along?
- Does NJD worry about how Hughes/Hischier feel about parachuting in a new guy making 8 figures? Since Hughes/Tkachuk are buddies it's probably fine, and those C's signed very fair deals, but it's something to consider.

[djsFlames]

Originally Posted by The Cobra

And that helps Calgary how?

Apparently just the shallow and fleeting gratification of spite.

[The Cobra]

Originally Posted by Redlan

No, you accept the arbiters decision, you tell him to sit on his parents couch in St. Louis and wait. He should expand his list by the American Thanksgiving.

He would refuse to sign any contract with any team, happily sit out out the year making $9M+ and waive goodbye to the Flames at UFA time.

Meanwhile the Flames reputation is lower than Edmonton's.

Every player on the team will want out.

All you've accomplished is made Calgary no one's destination.

[Aarongavey]

Originally Posted by MacFlame

It isn't? Honest question....he's a 23 year old winger with 73 points last year. They may be able to sign him long term too.

vs.

Matthew Tkachuk...hes a 24 year old winger with 104 points last year, but the flames can't sign and can go UFA as early as next year.

on top of that you want one of NJ's best prospects who was a PPG in the AHL last year

.....and a 1st round pick?

You think NJ would do that?

One should compare each year that Bratt and Tkachuk have played since the 2016 draft. That will give one a better sense of the extreme delta between the two of them.

[Calgary4LIfe]

77 pts while playing with Backlund, and still developing, leads me to believe that 104 pts isn't all on Johnny.


I am not that big of a fan of Tkachuk mostly because I think his antics do just as much if not more to get the Flames off their game, and the whole "pulls the team into the war" thing - in an 82 game series, your team that has 'gone to war' is going to be pretty worn out and beat up.


Other than those 2 complaints, he is baiscally a perfect player. Yeah, he doesn't skate fast, but he is still a very good forechecker somehow, and an extremely effective player in every zone with the metrics to back it up. Whether he is top 10 or top 20 it doesn't matter - Tkachuk is an ELITE franchise level player by any metric, and complaining that he has a zit on his nose is smells a lot more like someone's feelings are hurt more than anything else.

[Roof-Daddy]

Originally Posted by rhino

I wouldn’t look to Calgary Puck for expected returns

I wouldn't either, but these are the returns these people are expecting and they are going to flip the F out with what I think the return is going to be.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Ashasx

why are we lying to ourselves? how does a player with these qualities score 40 goals and 104 points?

Lucic has a higher top speed...I said he has amazing hands, like world class around the net. He also played with two incredible players that were a perfect fit

If you think he will get 100 points again I would make that bet

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

77 pts while playing with Backlund, and still developing, leads me to believe that 104 pts isn't all on Johnny.


I am not that big of a fan of Tkachuk mostly because I think his antics do just as much if not more to get the Flames off their game, and the whole "pulls the team into the war" thing - in an 82 game series, your team that has 'gone to war' is going to be pretty worn out and beat up.


Other than those 2 complaints, he is baiscally a perfect player. Yeah, he doesn't skate fast, but he is still a very good forechecker somehow, and an extremely effective player in every zone with the metrics to back it up. Whether he is top 10 or top 20 it doesn't matter - Tkachuk is an ELITE franchise level player by any metric, and complaining that he has a zit on his nose is smells a lot more like someone's feelings are hurt more than anything else.

I'm thrilled so many people think he is awesome...only makes the return better

skating is a pretty big part of hockey (not a zit) and guys who do it poorly often don't age well. Considering the 10.5Mx8 it would take to keep him here and the frenzy around the league about trading him I feel strongly this is a best case scenario for the Flames.

I like the player but...he is not one of the best hockey players on earth, his contract is going to be a disaster if its in the 10M plus range.

IMO

If he changes his mind and the Flames sign him to 10.5x8 today I would hope for the best but be disappointed honestly

[FlamesAddiction]

Tkachuk is one of the best passers in the league, as well as one of the sneakiest players for getting into position in front of the net. If you put him with the right cast, he can certainly put up over 100 points again.

He's not Nathan Mackinnon or Connor McDavid, so he isn't going to do stuff all by himself like those guys can, but he is an extremely effective player when playing with other skilled players.

[Jore]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

No way dude. Putting Chucky’s success on Johnny is ridiculous. We had two elite wingers, we now have none.

It's not all on Gaudreau, and he obviously helped that line too. He's an elite winger no doubt. I just don't think he's a 100 point player without a talent like Gaudreau on his line. If he lands in NJ and plays with Hughes, then he could hit it again. But he can't be the best player on your team and the guy you build around.

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

77 pts while playing with Backlund, and still developing, leads me to believe that 104 pts isn't all on Johnny.

He had 41 even strength points to Backlund's 37 that year.

[Bonded]

Originally Posted by Roof-Daddy

I wouldn't either, but these are the returns these people are expecting and they are going to flip the F out with what I think the return is going to be.

What are you expecting?

[ComixZone]

Originally Posted by Jore

It's not all on Gaudreau, and he obviously helped that line too. He's an elite winger no doubt. I just don't think he's a 100 point player without a talent like Gaudreau on his line. If he lands in NJ and plays with Hughes, then he could hit it again. But he can't be the best player on your team and the guy you build around.



He had 41 even strength points to Backlund's 37 that year.

No good teams build lines around one guy, that's just truth of it.

No 100 point player does it by himself.