Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy
Don't take it out on her or yourself and realize that you deserve to be happy. You didn't do anything wrong. She just wasn't happy and thats ok too.
Yeah, being unhappy meant she was perfectly justified in cheating rather than being upfront about the issue. Or, alternatively, he's the aggrieved party and has every right to feel betrayed and angry, and maybe have her share a bit in the negative emotions she has engendered.
Sometimes when you make a bad choice, it doesn't end well. Telling yourself you didn't do anything wrong just means you're more likely to make another bad choice in the future and hurt someone again. Avoiding consequences by trying to get everyone to sit around in a circle singing hippy songs and pushing out positive vibes isn't forgiving or rational - it's just selfish.
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Yeah, being unhappy meant she was perfectly justified in cheating rather than being upfront about the issue. Or, alternatively, he's the aggrieved party and has every right to feel betrayed and angry, and maybe have her share a bit in the negative emotions she has engendered.
Sometimes when you make a bad choice, it doesn't end well. Telling yourself you didn't do anything wrong just means you're more likely to make another bad choice in the future and hurt someone again. Avoiding consequences by trying to get everyone to sit around in a circle singing hippy songs and pushing out positive vibes isn't forgiving or rational - it's just selfish.
Very insightful stuff, yet at no point does she have to share his emotions.
I wasn't getting into the right vs wrong of what happened or tell him to sing songs in a sharing circle. My message to him is that there's no point wallowing in what happened or why. And as far as he told us, he didn't do anything wrong.
What are you actually trying to say and who are you trying to say it to? Hmmm, I wonder.
Location: In a land without pants, or war, or want. But mostly we care about the pants.
Exp:
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy
Very insightful stuff, yet at no point does she have to share his emotions.
Obviously empathy isn't high on her list of positive qualities, so I guess not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy
I wasn't getting into the right vs wrong of what happened or tell him to sing songs in a sharing circle. My message to him is that there's no point wallowing in what happened or why. And as far as he told us, he didn't do anything wrong.
Yes, there is a point in "wallowing" in what happened and why. If you don't look critically at your actions and the reactions of those around you, you go on through life obliviously certain that whatever you do, you must be in the right. Maybe some wallowing will help peter see where he didn't recognize the signs that she was unhappy, or the signs she was cheating. Maybe she could do with some guilty introspection to understand why she was too much of an emotional coward to initiate a breakup instead of betraying him.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeGeeWhy
What are you actually trying to say and who are you trying to say it to?
I thought I was talking to you about your obvious implication that it was ok for this cheater to cheat because she was unhappy. "She just wasn't happy and thats ok too" looks like you expect him to forgive her for being too selfish to grab her vagina and quiet it down for long enough to act like an adult.
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Calgary has many "support specialists" to help you through this difficult time.
They are otherwise known as extremely slutty women. Go have some fun, or 2 or 3 or 10 then get back in the dating game. Nothing helps a man forget his girlfriend rut than the body of a complete stranger.
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Very insightful stuff, yet at no point does she have to share his emotions.
I wasn't getting into the right vs wrong of what happened or tell him to sing songs in a sharing circle. My message to him is that there's no point wallowing in what happened or why. And as far as he told us, he didn't do anything wrong.
What are you actually trying to say and who are you trying to say it to? Hmmm, I wonder.
He's trying to say you're a selfish prick. To you. There's really nothing to wonder about.
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It's honestly not that hard of a thing for me to realize that in any breakup, things go both ways. This thing should have been over a year ago, but complacency etc..., was in the way. Still doesn't change the fact that the most fundamental thing in a long-term relationship was absolutely destroyed through her cheating. That is one thing that I will always have over her morally. Everything else I have to work out on my own.
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You're in location 1 for 4-5 years, wherein you familiarize yourself with the surroundings for a year, try to have a friend with benefits for 6 months, and then have a gf for 2-3 years that eventually breaks up. You start thinking back about other women that could have been.
Then you move for additional post-graduate studies. Restart meeting new people process. But this time, you feel less inclined to jump into a relationship. You hold out for a few years while you "concentrate on your studies." Eventually you give in, have a new relationship, but you're somewhat uncomfortable that your solo life is being encroached upon.
You move again for a putative academic position. Your lifestyle has been to live by yourself for 10 years. You want sex, and you say you want a relationship, but you don't want your actual lifestyle to change. You're mildly standoff-ish. Women sense it. But you're getting older, and you don't have anything in common intellectually because the women that you're still attracted to physically are 23-27 years old (and you're mid 30ish).
You get tenure. You have graduate students of your own. You bang their friends in exchange for long conversations about Marx and Engels, God and Angels.
Moral of this story: I read some confusion in your opening post and follow ups, as you first noted that she broke your heart, but then you made mention of her using sex to get her way (which implies you're happy to put up with certain things in exchange for sex), and then you made mention of a danish chick. Methinks you need to spend some time really thinking about what you want now and in the future. I don't get the feeling that you really want a firm commitment at this time, but rather want to enjoy different women. If true, then it's better to be in the right frame of mind and honest with yourself. That will make the next few months easier and less confusing.
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Yes, there is a point in "wallowing" in what happened and why. If you don't look critically at your actions and the reactions of those around you, you go on through life obliviously certain that whatever you do, you must be in the right. Maybe some wallowing will help peter see where he didn't recognize the signs that she was unhappy, or the signs she was cheating. Maybe she could do with some guilty introspection to understand why she was too much of an emotional coward to initiate a breakup instead of betraying him.
I thought I was talking to you about your obvious implication that it was ok for this cheater to cheat because she was unhappy. "She just wasn't happy and thats ok too" looks like you expect him to forgive her for being too selfish to grab her vagina and quiet it down for long enough to act like an adult.
I agree that looking critically at the actions and reactions of those around you is important, and I'll add that looking critically at yourself in the relationship is crucial at this stage, but I wouldn't call that wallowing. That is exactly what needs to be done by both individuals so they can move on, avoid similar mistakes and pain in the future, and to grow in the ways they need to grow to have whole, positive and healthy relationships going forward.
I was not implying in my first post that it was ok for the cheater to cheat. I don't know how you got that. It never is ok, and its a really poor way to deal with your emotions and she will face consequences for doing so for a very long time. But yes, I would hope that at some point forgiveness for a selfish action woud come into play because people make mistakes, and it really isn't going to do Peter any good to hang onto a bitter memories and emotions. Not everyone he deals with in his future is gong to behave the way she did.
It is ok that she wasn't happy, but it wasn't ok how she chose to deal with it. Niether thing was in his control, and now he has the choice to throw a pity party and feel wronged or morally superior or whatever, or just look at it as what it is... a mistake and something that should have ended sooner. Which do you think will give him the better chance at having healthy relationships in his future? All Peter can do is look at it from that point of view and let it go so he can move on.. its not justifying anything, its just not making out to be bigger or more complicated than she wasn't happy and wasn't mature enough to deal with it in an adult way. It is what it is.
You're in location 1 for 4-5 years, wherein you familiarize yourself with the surroundings for a year, try to have a friend with benefits for 6 months, and then have a gf for 2-3 years that eventually breaks up. You start thinking back about other women that could have been.
Then you move for additional post-graduate studies. Restart meeting new people process. But this time, you feel less inclined to jump into a relationship. You hold out for a few years while you "concentrate on your studies." Eventually you give in, have a new relationship, but you're somewhat uncomfortable that your solo life is being encroached upon.
You move again for a putative academic position. Your lifestyle has been to live by yourself for 10 years. You want sex, and you say you want a relationship, but you don't want your actual lifestyle to change. You're mildly standoff-ish. Women sense it. But you're getting older, and you don't have anything in common intellectually because the women that you're still attracted to physically are 23-27 years old (and you're mid 30ish).
You get tenure. You have graduate students of your own. You bang their friends in exchange for long conversations about Marx and Engels, God and Angels.
Moral of this story: I read some confusion in your opening post and follow ups, as you first noted that she broke your heart, but then you made mention of her using sex to get her way (which implies you're happy to put up with certain things in exchange for sex), and then you made mention of a danish chick. Methinks you need to spend some time really thinking about what you want now and in the future. I don't get the feeling that you really want a firm commitment at this time, but rather want to enjoy different women. If true, then it's better to be in the right frame of mind and honest with yourself. That will make the next few months easier and less confusing.
Good post. You are actually totally correct. I've sort of theorized my own perspective on the one hand and realized that I wasn't getting what I needed out of the relationship. So you are actually alarmingly precise in your analysis and I appreciate your comments.
On the other hand, I am hurt that she lied. That was really effed up, because I would have given things another go. Another moral of the story, once you get to the point where you decide to have a last go at things, don't give things a last go. End it. I would have exchanged the feelings for different women for an entirely different woman than the one I was dating for 3 years. That sort of made sense to me last night actually.
I thought I was talking to you about your obvious implication that it was ok for this cheater to cheat because she was unhappy. "She just wasn't happy and thats ok too" looks like you expect him to forgive her for being too selfish to grab her vagina and quiet it down for long enough to act like an adult.
I am never criticising anything jammies ever posts again as thanks for this amazing sentence.
I think cheating is the ultimate coward's move. Maturity has nothing to do with it, and it doesn't come down to making poor decisions, since everyone knows it's wrong. What it comes down to is someone basically having no balls.
EDIT: Or in this case...ovaries?
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Out of curiosity Peter, did she want to try to stay with you to work things out when you found out about this or basically say it was over fu type of deal?
Cheating is probably one of the worst things you can do in a relationship. It is totally betrayal of the trust that I think should be valued at the core of any relationship. If the relationship be casually dating, long term relationship, or perhaps more importantly marriage. Are there reasons that lead to cheating? Maybe, but that 'unhappiness' should be openly discussed within the relationship/marriage. To not do this, and then to spin a web of "it's okay because I wasn't happy" is an excellent example of how morally bankrupt some people are.
Over the last year or so I've been channeling my inner Hamlet and been the king (Danish Prince?) of introspection. One thing rings true, while I agree that the individual has the impetus to be the mechanism of one's happiness, when it comes to relationships two people are always involved. peter12 has every right to feel hurt and distraught. Will he get over it eventually? Yes. But the trust he had with his girlfriend was broken, and as I said before, that can't be explained away by a self admitted cheater who is willing to spread his artificial construct of justification.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Locke
Thats why Flames fans make ideal Star Trek fans. We've really been taught to embrace the self-loathing and extreme criticism.
Out of curiosity Peter, did she want to try to stay with you to work things out when you found out about this or basically say it was over fu type of deal?
What was strange is that she was trying to negotiate as I was sort of hit with this piece of news, like it was all explainable. So yeah, it was kind of like we could at least continue on as friends. There was actually no anger or spite on her side of things. I feel weird because I really want there to be a direct reason that is my fault for this happening. Like, you have small man breasts, bad breath, or are too dominant or something. But there was literally nothing, it was like blank face.
First: it is nice to see H&B make such a nice CP comeback in the first dozen or so posts.
Second: make as clean a break as possible, and by this, I mean Facebook. I am convinced that FB is the WORST thing to happen to relationships since some woman first uttered the words 'we have to talk'. Delete her, delete all her friends. Ask your good friends to delete her.
Seriously. This sounds stupid and petty but in two months when you come home from the bar blasted and lonely and see some FB update about her and some random dude you will be tempted to call her, etc.
Last edited by vanisleflamesfan; 11-06-2010 at 02:08 PM.
Reason: There is no E in random.
On the other hand, I am hurt that she lied. That was really effed up, because I would have given things another go. Another moral of the story, once you get to the point where you decide to have a last go at things, don't give things a last go. End it. I would have exchanged the feelings for different women for an entirely different woman than the one I was dating for 3 years. That sort of made sense to me last night actually.
You've every right to feel hurt over her deception*.
However, perhaps there is maybe a little bit of mental relief (however small) that this deception allows you to break up while also allowing you to not feel bad about being the one that does it. She gave you the morally acceptable "out" and you took it.
I suspect that the relationship was already dying down somewhat, and that sex had a role in keeping "it" alive. In other words, you'd mentally checked out of the relationship before this. When you knew that fact, it was the time to bail; but of course, for many it's hard to sit face to face with someone and say that you want to end the relationship. The alternative, obviously, is that the two people continue to grow distant until both are unhappy, and one or both cheats*.
* With regards to deception and cheating, I think we as a society spend too much on the emotional / mental health part of it. From my perspective, cheating is the ultimate betrayal of your partner's physical health.
Out of curiosity Peter, did she want to try to stay with you to work things out when you found out about this or basically say it was over fu type of deal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flames Fan, Ph.D.
You've every right to feel hurt over her deception*.
However, perhaps there is maybe a little bit of mental relief (however small) that this deception allows you to break up while also allowing you to not feel bad about being the one that does it. She gave you the morally acceptable "out" and you took it.
I suspect that the relationship was already dying down somewhat, and that sex had a role in keeping "it" alive. In other words, you'd mentally checked out of the relationship before this. When you knew that fact, it was the time to bail; but of course, for many it's hard to sit face to face with someone and say that you want to end the relationship. The alternative, obviously, is that the two people continue to grow distant until both are unhappy, and one or both cheats*.
* With regards to deception and cheating, I think we as a society spend too much on the emotional / mental health part of it. From my perspective, cheating is the ultimate betrayal of your partner's physical health.
Good point. I think that the physical component just as important as well. She says nothing happened, I'll still be getting tested in 3 months.
More or less, I think you are correct, except that I, at least, had the courage to lay it all out earlier on and basically give her the out, but she still said it was worth sticking around.
Also, if people use the term "sticking around" within a relationship, it's another sign it should end.
Last edited by peter12; 11-06-2010 at 03:31 PM.
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Sorry to hear about that Peter, you're a good guy and don't deserve to be treated like that. I've never been cheated on (at least to knowledge) but I'd imagine that it would be a very painful experience. Anyway from my experience with breaking up after long-term relationships I've found that time does heal all wounds, it will take time but you will get over it with support from friends and family.
When I'm back in town during Christmas break you, your brother, and I need to go out for a beer and catch up.
In the mean time I'd thought you'd enjoy this:
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