New Calgary transit fees.

[Bunk]

Originally Posted by Bend it like Bourgeois

The first comment - sure, if you want to pick on recycling that's one.

The second, c'mon man. What would the byline on your editorial be? Josh White concerned citizen, or Josh white president of lobby group? Nothing wrong with that, but you can't pretend like it doesn't exist.

Well services are fundamental to the quality of life of people. Not sure I want a city with poor quality services.

I'm not president of any group. 2 years ago, yes (a citizen's advocacy group). Now, I'm just a professional and yes, a concerned citizen.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Ethaniel

So you are stating that the City of Calgary should have the right to force your decision to uproot your family? Wow.

Yes Bike and Walk -40 deg weather everyone wants to bike and walk potentially 5 - 6 blocks to get to the train. Not to mention again if she sells her vehicle how does she get her kids to daycare walk again? so another 6 blocks and you are taking kids out in that weather. 30 - 45 more minutes both ways is about 200 a day if you have 2 kids in childcare.

No, I'm saying that there are options. The City isn't forcing anyone to use the Park and Ride stations. It's a consumer's decision to. Also, getting a better paying job would be another option.

Quite the sob story you've got going there. I have to say... Aw, muffin. You made your bed....

[Kerplunk]

Coming from the NE, I can see new fees causing more people to just drive to work instead of taking the train. I've never been impressed by the transit system up here, and sometimes convenience trumps cost. Should be interesting to see what happens at Sunridge mall, with fees at the park and ride and the mall being militant about people parking all day to use the train in their lot. Fun stuff.

As for how they will charge the users, they will probably use a system like they do in lots downtown. Go to machine, grab ticket, pay after (or pre-pay then get refund). Makes the most sense, and they have cops to hover around and make sure people have a ticket on their dash.

[FireFly]

Originally Posted by Slava

I don't take transit very often (and walk to the station when I do). But the whole "move closer" argument is a little shallow to me. The city builds these sub-divisions where they do and make a lot of money by doing so. I pay my taxes out there, and expect a certain level of service as a result....which to me seems fairly reasonable?

I don't think that someone with kids needs to live any closer to the Drop-In Center, Mustard Seed or crack cul-de-sac (to name a few choice locations) because the city can't appropriately plan their transit funding.

How about closer to Lion's Park or Sunnyside? There's a lot of area between the burbs and right downtown... many such places also have either a) a train stop conveniently located within walking distance or b) better bus service.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

What is X can't decrease? What if X is as low as it can go without compromising basic services? Hypothetical, but your question works both ways.

My Big fat hairy a$$ that's the bottom line. How about contracting out garbage collection? How about instead of cutting 106,100 from "Canadian Coalition of Municipalities Against Racism and Discrimination" they eliminate throwing money away on feel good initiatives like this entirely? How about suspending all arts funding until the economy recovers? How are all these things absolutely necessary as to seriously cut into residents standards of living and quality of life at a time when economic realities are already hurting them? Quite frankly if the city can't meet services at tax rate hikes in line with local inflation, the way they do things and the people working for them are doing their jobs dead wrong and systemic changes need to happen.

I really hate that the way these tax hikes get sold are with a notion that all choas will ensue and essential services will compromised when in reality it only means a few someone's ImagineCalgary initiatives don't happen.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Bobblehead

.
1) I think the city is going crazy in tax hikes/user fees. And while generally I don' t like it but understand it, there are a number of uses of the money that I don't agree with. The user fees are diminishing the "quality of life" that seem to be the justification for much of this.

Well look at it this way - what if the additional revenue stream from Park 'N Ride fares could offset a tax increase? At this point, I don't think the City is looking to create more of a burden on citizens than what is already proposed. This could be an excellent way to get the tax rate down for all Calgarians by only charging those who use this particular service.

Think of it as a toll booth - if want to cross the bridge (park at a train station), then you have to pay the fee.

This fee might be more justified if the City can prove that it has financial benefit for all taxpayers as well.

[Ethaniel]

it is not a story multiple cases of this is occurring everyday and you just don't realize it. You have your blinders on if you don't realize this. Get a better paying job wow I mean people can do this regularly when they want to just go out and get a better job. Man Calgary has the solution for the rest of the world then. Everyone just go get a better paying job. So Single mom decides to take the bus to the park and ride station avoiding a $60/month charge, but in doing so requires 2 more hours (cause transit buses are horrible) of childcare. 2 kids on average will cost her more than the $60 to park, thus she is stuck with paying $900 more a year that she can not afford.

Yea it may be a sad case but it exists and until you realize this and many other cases like it exist you can stay in your bed.

[habernac]

Originally Posted by FireFly

How about closer to Lion's Park or Sunnyside? There's a lot of area between the burbs and right downtown... many such places also have either a) a train stop conveniently located within walking distance or b) better bus service.

Then you get rewarded by trains that are too full.

I started cycling to work when Transit went on strike. I figured if I can't depend on them, I'll depend on myself to get there.

[North East Goon]

If the parking fee goes towards more security within the park and rides, allows for snow removal daily plus electricity to plug-in daily, then I can live with it. I just hope there is a monthly pass service for this rather than toll booths.

[The Ditch]

Originally Posted by Ethaniel

it is not a story multiple cases of this is occurring everyday and you just don't realize it. You have your blinders on if you don't realize this. Get a better paying job wow I mean people can do this regularly when they want to just go out and get a better job. Man Calgary has the solution for the rest of the world then. Everyone just go get a better paying job. So Single mom decides to take the bus to the park and ride station avoiding a $60/month charge, but in doing so requires 2 more hours (cause transit buses are horrible) of childcare. 2 kids on average will cost her more than the $60 to park, thus she is stuck with paying $900 more a year that she can not afford.

Yea it may be a sad case but it exists and until you realize this and many other cases like it exist you can stay in your bed.

She should have thought about that when she was in high school, geez pull yourself up by your bootstraps you think my tax dollars are going to help you out?

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

I really hate that the way these tax hikes get sold are with a notion that all choas will ensue and essential services will compromised when in reality it only means a few someone's ImagineCalgary initiatives don't happen.

The majority of the increased costs are to fund essential services - more police, more fire, and yes - EMS had to be included in the budget in case the province backed out like they did last time. It was a prudent measure.

Roads, infrastructure, things you use on a daily basis - THAT is the bulk of the increase.

Eliminating arts funding and pedestrian bridges (which by the way mostly comes out of the capital budget, not operating budget) is peanuts in comparison to where the increases are going to be spent.

You want the gang problem solved? You want timely emergency services? you want a paved road? Then be prepared to pay for it - and that's what the City is trying to do.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Downtown Parking: $20 (on average per day) x 20 work days = $400.

Park 'N Ride: $3(20 days) + $90 bus pass = $150.

Do the math.

If you can find a downtown parking spot for less than $150 per month, please inform the rest of us.

Or the dishonoring the honor system option:

Park 'N Ride $3(20 days) = $60, cheaper than the old $70 pass for a savings of $10!


I've seen transit cops ticket canvass the train car I've been on twice in 3 years commuting downtown and both times were off peak. Delaying hiring new transit cops won't improve the enforcement issue either. If people really need that money or just don't respect the way the city uses it expect to not fully realize that revenue anyway.

[The Ditch]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

You want the gang problem solved? You want timely emergency services? you want a paved road? Then be prepared to pay for it - and that's what the City is trying to do.

I hope we actually see results.

[Ethaniel]

Originally Posted by The Ditch

I hope we actually see results.

We wont....
Only result you will see coming from the city is Bronco's new Hooker and Blow addiction.

[RedHot25]

I don't live in Calgary now, but have lived in a variety of cities across the country - including Calgary for a long, long period of time. Thought this might be interesting for a comparative context, as a lot of the discussion seems generally focused on cost.

Halifax
-monthly pass $60
-although most appear to be free, some park and rides charge $30 - $40/month. http://www.halifax.ca/metrotransit/park_ride.html
-NOTE: Halifax's transit is HORRIBLE. Absolutely putrid, I'm sorry. So while the cost may seem "better"...well...let me tell you for the service you would not be getting... (Calgary's transit far, far outclasses halifax's, even taking into account the size discrepancy)

Greater Vancouver
-monthly pass $73/month (1 zone), $99/month (2 zone) and $136/month (3 zone). Zones refer to areas of greater vancouver; depending where etc you are going (i.e. how many zones you transfer into) determines which pass you should get.
-Park and Ride: some free, some $2/day (or $40 to $60/month)
http://www.translink.bc.ca/Commuting_Options/park_ride/
-Note: I really like Vancouver's transit system....

Ottawa
-regular pass: $81/month, express pass: $101
-park and ride: most appear free, although some charge: between $20/month and $40/month http://www.octranspo.com/maps_menue.htm (click on park and ride on the side).


Anyway just some comparative food for thought. Having lived in various cities, and ALWAYS used transit...I don't know, Calgary's seems not too bad overall (I've done a lot of Calgary transit as well).

[flip]

How is the $3 fee for the park and ride going to work?

Is there still going to be 4 hour parking? Is that going to be free?

Is it $3 dollars regardless of length stay? I certainly will not be paying for transit (although I have a Upass, but if I didn't) ever again. Screw the honour system I need that money for parking now.

[Ozy_Flame]

Originally Posted by Cowboy89

Or the dishonoring the honor system option:

Park 'N Ride $3(20 days) = $60, cheaper than the old $70 pass for a savings of $10!


I've seen transit cops ticket canvass the train car I've been on twice in 3 years commuting downtown and both times were off peak. Delaying hiring new transit cops won't improve the enforcement issue either. If people really need that money or just don't respect the way the city uses it expect to not fully realize that revenue anyway.

Hey that's fine. There will be plenty of people who are going to pay it, and for those who don't, you'll find that a nice fat ticket will bridge that gap. That $3 / day will help the City to lower taxes, I hope you realize that.

Also, I would hope you have a stronger regard for morals and better civic pride. Abusing the honor system commands low respect.

[Kerplunk]

Originally Posted by flip

How is the $3 fee for the park and ride going to work?

Is there still going to be 4 hour parking? Is that going to be free?

Is it $3 dollars regardless of length stay? I certainly will not be paying for transit (although I have a Upass, but if I didn't) ever again. Screw the honour system I need that money for parking now.

I was thinking about this too. They would probably put in an hourly rate up until the $3 mark, just to make sure they get everyone.

[Ethaniel]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

Hey that's fine. There will be plenty of people who are going to pay it, and for those who don't, you'll find that a nice fat ticket will bridge that gap. That $3 / day will help the City to lower taxes, I hope you realize that.

Also, I would hope you have a stronger regard for morals and better civic pride. Abusing the honor system strikes commands low respect.

Ozy,

That $3/day will not help lower taxes. They are still going to charge me 9.4% next year on top of it. $3/day is $900 a year. that is approximately a 90% property tax increase.

[Cowboy89]

Originally Posted by Ozy_Flame

The majority of the increased costs are to fund essential services - more police, more fire, and yes - EMS had to be included in the budget in case the province backed out like they did last time. It was a prudent measure.

Roads, infrastructure, things you use on a daily basis - THAT is the bulk of the increase.

Eliminating arts funding and pedestrian bridges (which by the way mostly comes out of the capital budget, not operating budget) is peanuts in comparison to where the increases are going to be spent.

You want the gang problem solved? You want timely emergency services? you want a paved road? Then be prepared to pay for it - and that's what the City is trying to do.

Actually get rid of the 'peanuts' first before asking for huge hikes. Then we'll believe the city is really serious about handling city funds prudently. You know a private sector company that has trouble with its operating budget has an awfully hard time explaining excess capital expenditures. I know the funds for the bridges are ear-marked from the province, but why not try to negotiate that (Bronco had no trouble arguing with the province when it came to getting more money, why not on how it gets spent).

Also refer to my inflation comment. Frankly if you can't work within inflation then you're government is incompetent. Look at the reasons why the cost of essential services cost what they do and root out and eliminate excess in those costs. I see nothing but taking those costs as a given instead of trying to do these things cheaper. IE why not contract out some services (Garbage collection!!)?

It's also not like the city's been prudently spending at the level of inflation in the years leading up to this and now is asking the taxpayers for a little more to meet a one-time infrastructure crunch. They have been spending hard since 2001 and the tax hikes have been well over inflation going back that far. INCOMPETENCE!