I'm politically incorrect...does that make me a bad person?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

"Thank you, but I don't celebrate Christmas. But enjoy the holidays."

-=-=-=-=-

Thor: I agree. Let individuals do as they please. Each and every one of us has the right to celebrate whatever and however we wish. When Walmart switched to "Seasons Greetings"/"Happy Holidays" they did it because they chose, as a business, to be generic and not bring a divisive thing like religion into the store. It was the Christians who then attacked and threatened boycotts because Walmart stopped their promotion of their religion. Walmart was bullied into bringing "Merry Christmas" back.

It is because of the Christians that this holiday exists. The only reason they switched was because of the same arguements made here. No one was really complaining it was because they thought...."oh.....if we dont change this....we are going to offend people"

[Sparks]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Any time anyone wishes me a religious well wish, whether it be "Merry Christmas" or "May the Lord be With You", I subtly inform them I do not believe. Once said, most people know not to repeat their religious wishes. My friends know to say gesundheit instead of "God Bless You" when I sneeze. They know that the former means more to me than the latter, which makes me uncomfortable.

Do you have a problem with the word "Sunday" because it is named after a German god? Do you not "celebrate" New Years, since it falls on the day of Jesus's theoretical circumcision?

In my opinion, your attitude has more to do with anal-retentiveness than atheism. I'm an atheist myself, and I'm still trying to figure out how I should be offended by any of this. Christmas, and especially "bless you" are practically secular terms these days, and can certainly be used in a secular way.

[Thor]

I'm a pretty fervent Atheist but I don't get why there is a need to correct someone who wishes you Merry Christmas. My reply is always "Merry Christmas" or "Happy Holidays" depending on what people say to me.

For me as an Atheist its a holiday that brings people together, has a lot of giving involved, and really like I said as long as its not breaching the seperation of church and state I'm 100% going to enjoy and have fun with it.

To me why the holiday started is at this point irrelevant, people who are not believers, other followers of other faiths still find it a good way to get together with family/friends and do something we all don't do enough of, spend quality time with our family/friends.

[GreenTeaFrapp]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

Any time anyone wishes me a religious well wish, whether it be "Merry Christmas" or "May the Lord be With You", I subtly inform them I do not believe.

Christmas isn't just a religious holiday unless consumerism has become a full fledged religion. If someone wishes you a Happy Canada Day, do you state that you don't celebrate it?

When the neighbourhood kids go trick or treating and tell you Happy Halloween, do you say that you don't celebrate paganism?

[redforever]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

No you aren't...you ARE celebrating Christmas as that is the orgin of the holiday. Doesn't mean you have to believe the meaning of Christmas but if you participate in the events of Christmas, you are celebrating it.

Why can't you just have a little respect for people who believe in certain things? You can be respectful without believing in there customs/traditions and beliefs. I am not trying to be a dick here be you are coming off as a grouchy old man.

There are many different religious denominations that work where I work. When they are celebrating there customs I wish them well and ask them how there event is going. If they say something to me about there religion I dont say " Sorry buddy I dont believe in that crap so bugger off". And even tho you don't say those words, that is how they are taken.

Exactly and it belittles the other person who is celebrating whatever the holiday in question is. It implies that they have such a small brain to be involved with some custom or to be celebrating some holiday.

It is this small minded attitude that causes all the hub bub and hoopla regarding PC. And I am sorry, but it is a petty attitude, a petty attitude that only diminishes people with such an attitude in my eyes.

[Swarly]

I find it funny that some people are offended by someone saying Merry Christmas or putting up decorations in the malls. I think the problem here is those people believe that Christmas is a religious holiday. Maybe it was at one point but now it is just a consumer holiday. When you see a christmas tree do you think, 'oh i'm glad jesus was born to save us all' or do you think, 'oh crap, i've got to start buying presents'.

I speak as someone raised christian turned atheist. They are not putting up nativity scenes in malls, they put up trees and snowflakes and wreath. Not because they are trying to promote christianity but because it looks nice. Is snow religious too? Because snow is often associated with the christmas season.

There are 2 different christmas's. The consumer one that malls celebrate and the religious holiday that individuals celebrate. I think the problem occurs from people assuming they are the same. I dont believe they are.

[MarchHare]

It's amusing how many people in this thread are pointing out that Christmas has its origins as Christian religious holiday, when in reality it was the Christians who adapted previously existing pagan celebrations. There's no actual evidence that Jesus was born on the 25th of December; early Christians simply chose that date so it would coincide with the winter solstice festivals and celebrations.

http://de.essortment.com/christmaspagan_rece.htm

No one knows what day Jesus Christ was born on. From the biblical description, most historians believe that his birth probably occurred in September, approximately six months after Passover. One thing they agree on is that it is very unlikely that Jesus was born in December, since the bible records shepherds tending their sheep in the fields on that night. This is quite unlikely to have happened during a cold Judean winter. So why do we celebrate Christ’s birthday as Christmas, on December the 25th?

The answer lies in the pagan origins of Christmas. In ancient Babylon, the feast of the Son of Isis (Goddess of Nature) was celebrated on December 25. Raucous partying, gluttonous eating and drinking, and gift-giving were traditions of this feast.

In Rome, the Winter Solstice was celebrated many years before the birth of Christ. The Romans called their winter holiday Saturnalia, honoring Saturn, the God of Agriculture. In January, they observed the Kalends of January, which represented the triumph of life over death. This whole season was called Dies Natalis Invicti Solis, the Birthday of the Unconquered Sun. The festival season was marked by much merrymaking. It is in ancient Rome that the tradition of the Mummers was born. The Mummers were groups of costumed singers and dancers who traveled from house to house entertaining their neighbors. From this, the Christmas tradition of caroling was born.

In northern Europe, many other traditions that we now consider part of Christian worship were begun long before the participants had ever heard of Christ. The pagans of northern Europe celebrated the their own winter solstice, known as Yule. Yule was symbolic of the pagan Sun God, Mithras, being born, and was observed on the shortest day of the year. As the Sun God grew and matured, the days became longer and warmer. It was customary to light a candle to encourage Mithras, and the sun, to reappear next year.

Huge Yule logs were burned in honor of the sun. The word Yule itself means “wheel,” the wheel being a pagan symbol for the sun. Mistletoe was considered a sacred plant, and the custom of kissing under the mistletoe began as a fertility ritual. Hollyberries were thought to be a food of the gods.

The tree is the one symbol that unites almost all the northern European winter solstices. Live evergreen trees were often brought into homes during the harsh winters as a reminder to inhabitants that soon their crops would grow again. Evergreen boughs were sometimes carried as totems of good luck and were often present at weddings, representing fertility. The Druids used the tree as a religious symbol, holding their sacred ceremonies while surrounding and worshipping huge trees.

In 350, Pope Julius I declared that Christ’s birth would be celebrated on December 25. There is little doubt that he was trying to make it as painless as possible for pagan Romans (who remained a majority at that time) to convert to Christianity. The new religion went down a bit easier, knowing that their feasts would not be taken away from them.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by MarchHare

It's amusing how many people in this thread are pointing out that Christmas has its origins as Christian religious holiday, when in reality it was the Christians who adapted previously existing pagan celebrations. There's no actual evidence that Jesus was born on the 25th of December; early Christians simply chose that date so it would coincide with the winter solstice festivals and celebrations.

http://de.essortment.com/christmaspagan_rece.htm

Oh sorry, since it has only been a Christian event for the last 1657 years I guess its not Christian.

[Thor]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

Oh sorry, since it has only been a Christian event for the last 1657 years I guess its not Christian.

He's just pointing out its origins, not saying its not a Christian holiday.

[FlamesAddiction]

If anything, it has become taboo to be politically correct nowadays. Political correctness became so absurd that the movement now is to move away from it.

I think political correctness is a good thing in moderation. For example, I think even the most "politcally incorrect" people on this board would agree that using the "n-word" is the wrong thing to do; or that using outdated and derogatory words towards ethnic groups, races, or women is wrong. I sure hope anyone who voiced their discontent when such things are said wouldn't be ridiculed as being overly PC.

What gets me though, is when people try to take unoffensive and generally well intentioned things, and make them into PC issues - like the whole "Christmas" situation. For people who get offended by the word "Christmas", would you also get offended if you were in Israel and someone wished you well for Hannakuh (sp)?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Thor

He's just pointing out its origins, not saying its not a Christian holiday.

Fair enough.

[Flames09]

Originally Posted by TheyCallMeBruce

I'm a minority. Probably one of the most minor of minorities cause I'm pretty sure there aren't too many Malaysian born people in Calgary.

I have no issues with Christmas. As a matter of fact, I celebrate it. I love everything about Christmas, and I can honestly say I didn't celebrate Christmas prior to coming to Canada.

I don't think I've ever encountered anyone objecting to Christmas. I have encountered caucasian folks correcting me on the greeting though (Don't say Merry Christmas, seasons greetings instead!), which I found amusing and told them to go F*** themselves.

Me too. I dont celebrate it as Christmas but more as the season of giving and I have never cared if people say 'Merry Christmas' to me, I'll respond by saying 'Merry Christmas' or 'Happy Holidays'.

[Thor]

.......

[Flames09]

I believe that you have the right to say Merry Christmas and I have the right to say it back or simply let you know that I dont celebrate. I believe that pretty decorations that have little to do with God should be allowed, Santa, Snow, and bright lights. I dont believe in Christmas carols in schools unless it's about a reindeer. School should be seperate from Church, I believe singing O' Canada in school isn't bad at all, it's the country we live in, national anthem. I honestly just believe in choice, too much of something is offensive, but just because I dont believe in 'Christmas' as in the religious form of it, doesn't mean I should deny others celebrating, but I dont need it forced on me, and in my face all the time (which it isn't). So easy on the decorations, and dont call me out for not wanting to call it Christmas, or me not saying Merry Christmas, we have way more to deal with today then a holiday that is now associated with shopping moreso then Jesus Christ.

[Devils'Advocate]

Personally, I find the crass commercialization to be more offensive than the religious overtones. When I say I don't believe in Christmas, I'm saying I don't believe in the whole season.

I have told my friends and family that I don't want anything for Christmas. Ever. If they wish to spend money in my name, give money to the food bank. Christmas should be a time of giving to the less fortunate. It sticks in my craw that "Santa" makes better gifts for the rich kids and makes tube socks for the poor. And that I would THINK would also bother the Christians - that someone has usurped their most important observance as a means of profiting the corporate masters. As Primus said, "if Christmas didn't come this year, who would cry the biggest tear? The child.. or the store?".

[GirlySports]

It's not only Christmas..

From Fark.com

Seattle school officials are telling teachers that Thanksgiving actually is a time of "mourning" since it represents "500 years of betrayal." This, grunge, and Starbucks. What's in the air there?

http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=58718

[4X4]

re: Devils Advocate and the explanation

Even as an atheist I say merry christmas to people. If someone were to go out of their way to tell me what they believe or don't believe, I would go out of my way to tell them to suck my balls.

[GirlySports]

Another one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Err it happens at work too. I've seen Christmas cards on some of my co-workers desk given by other co-workers that weren't given to me!!

---
Actually, I'm not giving cards to anyone so I'm happy if I get any at all.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by GirlySports

Another one.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/liv...n_page_id=1770

Err it happens at work too. I've seen Christmas cards on some of my co-workers desk given by other co-workers that weren't given to me!!

---
Actually, I'm not giving cards to anyone so I'm happy if I get any at all.

Might aswell cancel valentines day.

[Winsor_Pilates]

I went to the mall yesterday and couldn't believe what I saw
After reading this thread, I assumed Christmas was cancelled due to immigrants, but low and behold there was Christmas stuff everywhere!!!

I must live in some sort of time portal that goes back to before Christmas was destroyed, because I saw Christmas Trees, heard Christmas carols, saw Christmas cards, decorations, clothes, everything!! The music playing in Sears had the lyrics "Merry Christmas". I thought you weren't allowed to say that in public?

There was even a Santa Clause taking pictures with a little Asian baby! And I thought they were the ones who destroyed Santa?

What an eye opening experience, maybe some of you should try going to the mall