I'm politically incorrect...does that make me a bad person?

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Thor

lol

As a fellow Atheist I don't care if people say Merry Christmas, Happy Hanukah, etc.. I don't care what decorations stores put up, its pretty and really we have much much bigger issues to deal with in life than this.

My only request is that public schools be kept secular, and that government stays out of religion and its holidays.

Other than that, decorate your houses, your churches stores, cars.. I'm more than OK with it all, just don't have the government or our public schools involved.

I think thats only fair.

So much for the yearly Christmas Concert then?

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

So much for the yearly Christmas Concert then?

Nah. That's what Santa is for. Nice and secular. All the kids can sing about jingle bells and rudolph and frosty. Really, you don't need Jesus for a good Christmas concert. And the kids don't care. So long as they get to run around in costumes of some sort, they're happy.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

Nah. That's what Santa is for. Nice and secular. All the kids can sing about jingle bells and rudolph and frosty. Really, you don't need Jesus for a good Christmas concert. And the kids don't care. So long as they get to run around in costumes of some sort, they're happy.

Ah, so are they still allowed to call it a Christmas Concert then or is it a Holiday concert?

[flylock shox]

It's a Snowday Concert. Hooray for Snow!!! Everybody loves it!!

I'm all for replacing the word "God" in the national anthem with the word "Snow" too. It's really the glue that holds our country together.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by flylock shox

It's a Snowday Concert. Hooray for Snow!!! Everybody loves it!!

I'm all for replacing the word "God" in the national anthem with the word "Snow" too. It's really the glue that holds our country together.

You dont change the name of a holiday/event/tradition because the people no longer really believe in the original meaning. You can still celebrate the event without taking the original meaning literally.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

You dont change the name of a holiday/event/tradition because the people no longer really believe in the original meaning. You can still celebrate the event without taking the original meaning literally.

I agree. And events, customs slowly evolve with time anyhow, even religious ones. Celebrating in a new way does not do a dishonor to the event or custom.

[Burninator]

Well that was a painful read. Not only the exaggerated text, but the painful point he was making. Typical, "if you don't like it, you can geeeet out!" BS talk.

Canada is a mosaic, not a melting pot. If that's what he wants perhaps he should exercise his right to leave and try a different country. While I'll agree that some political correctness has gone too far, it isn't nearly as a big of a problem as he makes it out to be. The author clearly has a misguided view of this country when he talks about god. Otherwise a good portion of the country would have to leave. If the author got his way this wouldn't be a free country.

[jolinar of malkshor]

A friend had pointed out to me that the Airport (calgary) was looking for cleaners a few weeks back. One of the job requirements was that the applicant had to speak punjab. (apparantly the supervisor only spoke punjab). When this thread came up I looked on the Airport website and could not find the job advertisement to link but my friend works at there airport and I dont think he would lie to me about it.

What do you think about the requirement to speak a language other than english or french?

[flylock shox]

Can't say I'm surprised by the Punjabi requirement at Calgary Airport. Their entire security staff is made up of brown folks. It would stand to reason that one or two might speak Punjabi.

Mind you, it's a bit weird that it's a job requirement. Kinda suggests that some folks on staff don't have a great command of English. But hey, whatever works.

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

You dont change the name of a holiday/event/tradition because the people no longer really believe in the original meaning. You can still celebrate the event without taking the original meaning literally.

Well YOU maybe don't change the name. I like changing names though. Keeps the holidays from getting boring. Every year you celebrate a different secular thing. Snow. Cabbage. Bob Saget. An Onion. And every year you have to change the songs to fit. Now there's a fun school project, and a concert the whole family of humanity can enjoy.

[Option84]

Speaking as an immigrant who came here when I was four, the only words I am offended by are racial pejoratives. Even if it is used as a joke. It's still offensive. Other than that I couldn't give a care less about any of the other political or religious stuff. And also a lot of immigrants come when they are older so they don't have the ability to assimilate as fast as a young person would. Not to mention they have to work their asses off day in and out since they start from the bottom and with a language handicap, which leaves little time to learn the language or culture. I'm pretty sure immigrants all really want to learn english but sometimes the personal resources and capacity just isn't available.

[Devils'Advocate]

Originally Posted by jolinar of malkshor

When someone wishes you merry Christmas....what exactly do you say back?

"Thank you, but I don't celebrate Christmas. But enjoy the holidays."

-=-=-=-=-

Thor: I agree. Let individuals do as they please. Each and every one of us has the right to celebrate whatever and however we wish. When Walmart switched to "Seasons Greetings"/"Happy Holidays" they did it because they chose, as a business, to be generic and not bring a divisive thing like religion into the store. It was the Christians who then attacked and threatened boycotts because Walmart stopped their promotion of their religion. Walmart was bullied into bringing "Merry Christmas" back.

[stuck_in_chuk]

I sometimes think that the whole 'PC scare' is totally overblown. Just 2 years ago, I was at a Starbucks about 2 weeks before Christmas and they had staff singing Christmas carols. People talk about banning malls where the Santa doesn't say 'ho ho ho' - well, I won't be shopping at any malls in AUSTRALIA this Christmas season, but not for that reason. Also, the article mentioned that no one was really following the orders anyway. Plus the fact that there is a Santa in the mall in the first place - definitely a celebration of Christmas.

When I used to work phone support for an internet company, I would always avoid saying Merry Christmas (my choice, not company policy). When working Christmas day, I noticed that people from different countries (such as India and China) which are not traditionally Christian nations would always wish me Merry Christmas, while the John Smith's would often not. I think that most recent immigrants try to fit in as much as they can. Anecdotal evidence, I admit, but there you have it.

I have never worked at a place where I was told not to say Merry Christmas, or has not made some effort to put up Christmas decorations.

As for people who won't stand for the national anthem for 'religious reasons', many of them were born in this country. They also don't celebrate Christmas. They are Jehovah's Witnesses. Of course, emails like the original generally put the blame on outsiders who look different.

Finally, the original email endorses an 'article' from a Toronto newspaper, but does not mention when the article came out, who was the author, or which paper it was in. Based on the inflammatory nature of the article, I would say that it was completely fictionalized (or, at best, a letter to the editor). Making up stuff to bolster your argument is a rather cheap ploy.

[redforever]

[quote=Devils'Advocate;1071784]"Thank you, but I don't celebrate Christmas. But enjoy the holidays."


Why do you feel it important to point out the fact that you do not celebrate Christmas? I think that really makes the person wishing you a nice holiday feel very uncomfortable. Is it important to you to point out to the person that you are different than them?

Isn't it just as easy to say, Thank you very much and a happy holiday to you too?

[Kipper is King]

Originally Posted by redforever

I do not find it disrespectful to say Merry Christmas. Really, you are just passing on a message of peace. Would you find it disrespectful to say Happy Hannukak to some Jewish friends?

It just comes down to common sense and it comes down to education and it comes down to both sides meeting one another in the middle. Make it a point to be informed about the cultures of others. It is when you are uneducated about something that you are more likely to put your feet in your mouth.

With education comes acceptance , and I say acceptance rather than tolerance. In my opinion, it conveys a totally different picture to say you accept the differences of others rather than saying you tolerate those differences.

I was not trying to imply that. I was trying to state them as two entirely separate topics. My apologies.

[octothorp]

To me, it's like a kid saying that they hope Santa Claus brings you a nice gift, and you tell the kid, "Sorry, I don't believe in Santa Claus." One should try to find personal value and significance in the strong emotional state that others are experiencing, regardless of your faith or theirs. I'm an agnostic atheist, yet I could probably find value and meaning in the holidays of any religious tradition; it's not really that hard, and I feel richer as a person for having done so. So when I hear all this bickering back and forth between people who are easily offended and people who are offended at the suggestion that they've offended someone else, I just don't see the point in any of it.

[redforever]

Originally Posted by octothorp

To me, it's like a kid saying that they hope Santa Claus brings you a nice gift, and you tell the kid, "Sorry, I don't believe in Santa Claus." One should try to find personal value and significance in the strong emotional state that others are experiencing, regardless of your faith or theirs. I'm an agnostic atheist, yet I could probably find value and meaning in the holidays of any religious tradition; it's not really that hard, and I feel richer as a person for having done so. So when I hear all this bickering back and forth between people who are easily offended and people who are offended at the suggestion that they've offended someone else, I just don't see the point in any of it.

Now here is someone who has figured things out folks.

[Devils'Advocate]

There is 3 billion degrees of difference between telling a kid you don't believe in their fairy tales and telling an adult you don't believe in theirs.

If some 26 year old loses a tooth in a hockey game and he TRULY believes that the tooth fairy is going to leave him some money, I might well be inclined to inform him that I don't believe in the tooth fairy.

Any time anyone wishes me a religious well wish, whether it be "Merry Christmas" or "May the Lord be With You", I subtly inform them I do not believe. Once said, most people know not to repeat their religious wishes. My friends know to say gesundheit instead of "God Bless You" when I sneeze. They know that the former means more to me than the latter, which makes me uncomfortable.

It's like those Jehovah Witnesses that come to my door and leave saying "I'll pray for your soul" (you can guess why the leave saying that). Sure you could say that the person meant well and that I should respect his religion; but when it's tossed towards me it stopped being about his/her religion and is meant as a hook to reel me in.

[Bobblehead]

Why does it make you uncomfortable?

Do you feel they are compelling you to be religious by wishing you well?

If someone were to say "Happy Hanukkah" to me I would take it as a nice way to wish me well. I wouldn't say it back to them, but I would say Thank You.

There wishes to you only have as much meaning as you give it. By being offended it almost sounds a little insecure.

[TheyCallMeBruce]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

"Thank you, but I don't celebrate Christmas. But enjoy the holidays."

-=-=-=-=-

Thor: I agree. Let individuals do as they please. Each and every one of us has the right to celebrate whatever and however we wish. When Walmart switched to "Seasons Greetings"/"Happy Holidays" they did it because they chose, as a business, to be generic and not bring a divisive thing like religion into the store. It was the Christians who then attacked and threatened boycotts because Walmart stopped their promotion of their religion. Walmart was bullied into bringing "Merry Christmas" back.

I'd be fine with it if you explained that to me. It's the people who try to correct me that I have an issue with. Don't tell me what to say. If you had came back with, "no, you should say season greetings, cause I don't believe in Christmas." Then I would tell you to go f*** yourself.

[jolinar of malkshor]

Originally Posted by Devils'Advocate

"Thank you, but I don't celebrate Christmas. But enjoy the holidays."

-=-=-=-=-

Thor: I agree. Let individuals do as they please. Each and every one of us has the right to celebrate whatever and however we wish. When Walmart switched to "Seasons Greetings"/"Happy Holidays" they did it because they chose, as a business, to be generic and not bring a divisive thing like religion into the store. It was the Christians who then attacked and threatened boycotts because Walmart stopped their promotion of their religion. Walmart was bullied into bringing "Merry Christmas" back.

No you aren't...you ARE celebrating Christmas as that is the orgin of the holiday. Doesn't mean you have to believe the meaning of Christmas but if you participate in the events of Christmas, you are celebrating it.

Why can't you just have a little respect for people who believe in certain things? You can be respectful without believing in there customs/traditions and beliefs. I am not trying to be a dick here be you are coming off as a grouchy old man.

There are many different religious denominations that work where I work. When they are celebrating there customs I wish them well and ask them how there event is going. If they say something to me about there religion I dont say " Sorry buddy I dont believe in that crap so bugger off". And even tho you don't say those words, that is how they are taken.