[PGT] Blues defeat Flames 3-2, Nov. 11th

[Erick Estrada]

The only thing that bothers me about the season is that Sharangovich is in year one of that five year contract and he's looking like a player with one foot out the NHL. I don't see a bad contract for bad contract scenario here because I don't see the upside for another team to take on the rest of the deal. If he doesn't get things going by the end of the season they could consider buying him out.

[Rejean31]

Do you ever wonder where the Flames would be if Jacob Markstrom hadn't suddenly forgotten how to play goal between game 7 of the Dallas series and game 1 of the Oilers series in 2022? That, more than anything else, started a series of unfortunate events.

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

In recent years, the Ducks and Sharks have iced abysmal rosters and wound up with the worst records in the league.

Today, the young players who were breaking into the league on those awful teams have them in playoff positions. The losing doesn’t seem to have damaged them at all.

Losing can hurt a kids confidence, but so can sitting on the 4th line and struggling. Flames did not address the logjam at forward and so many players are not playing as much and having bad years. This can also hurt the team's culture.

If the Flames tank this year and trade Kadri, Coleman, Ras. Yes, they will lose even more game than they have, but Zary, Kuznetsov, Parekh, Klapka's ice time will go up too and could have a positive impact on their confidence.

This team has quite a few players that won't be here when the team is on the rise.

[zukes]

Originally Posted by taxbuster

So …just a question for all those cheering the losses … what do the Flames do when losing, losing, losing finally destroys every ounce of energy, creativity and joy in the young players, including Wolfie? Got a plan for that?

Really…I want to know, because there’s a human aspect, too. (And yes, I’ve worked for a terminal organization…accountants always are the last to go….)

Obviously fire the coach. This is the way.

[getbak]

Originally Posted by Macho0978

I was told you had to wait to game 20-25 to make that decision.

They're in last place after 18 games and they're guaranteed to be in last place after 20 games.

[Inferno]

Originally Posted by Rejean31

Do you ever wonder where the Flames would be if Jacob Markstrom hadn't suddenly forgotten how to play goal between game 7 of the Dallas series and game 1 of the Oilers series in 2022? That, more than anything else, started a series of unfortunate events.

I don't think losing to the Oilers made Gaudreau decide he wanted to be closer to home. The only thing is maybe Tkachuk stays if he stays but it might not have mattered anyway. I think the plan was always to go back to the States.

[Cali Panthers Fan]

Originally Posted by ComixZone

Ryan Lomberg: 08:58 TOI, Even, 0 Shots, 0 Giveaways, 2 Hits
Yegor Sharangovich: 08:21 TOI, -2, 1 Shot, 0 Giveaways, 0 Hits
Connor Zary: 12:44 TOI, Even, 0 Shots, 3 Giveaways, 0 Hits

These fellas are certainly not having banger seasons.

Agree on the other two (they are both playing horribly right now), but not sure why you're lumping Lomberg in with them. That stat line is exactly what I would expect from him. Don't give the puck away, don't hurt your team defensively, go out and smash a couple of bodies.

I keep seeing people talking about Lomberg like he should be doing something more...I don't get it.

We can have the conversation about whether or not he should be in the lineup over a guy like Kerins, but he's doing exactly what he's been paid to do and what he's always done in his career.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Erick Estrada

The only thing that bothers me about the season is that Sharangovich is in year one of that five year contract and he's looking like a player with one foot out the NHL. I don't see a bad contract for bad contract scenario here because I don't see the upside for another team to take on the rest of the deal. If he doesn't get things going by the end of the season they could consider buying him out.

Wouldn't that keep him on the books for another 8 years? I'd rather they just send him down or tell him to stay home.

[BigThief]

Buying out a contract is the worst idea, especially for a basement dwelling team like the Flames. We don't need the cap space, we've got plenty of it and you're just going to replace him with another couple million dollar player and extending the cap hit into seasons were we hopefully need the space.

He's not worth the money or term but who cares right now

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Cali Panthers Fan

Agree on the other two (they are both playing horribly right now), but not sure why you're lumping Lomberg in with them. That stat line is exactly what I would expect from him. Don't give the puck away, don't hurt your team defensively, go out and smash a couple of bodies.

I keep seeing people talking about Lomberg like he should be doing something more...I don't get it.

We can have the conversation about whether or not he should be in the lineup over a guy like Kerins, but he's doing exactly what he's been paid to do and what he's always done in his career.

I will go above and beyond this.

A rebuilding team NEEDS a guy like Lomberg. Why?

• Keeps the team loose - you can argue he can do that while being healthy scratched, but watch him on the bench. There is value there.
• Sticks up for his teammates
• You want good vets that help kids learn how to be a pro - say what you will about Lomberg, but he is a unit, and it comes from a lot of hard work and dedication, and this can rub-off on young players
• He works hard every shift. For a team that is trying to rebuild the culture just as much as the skill-level, you probably want a guy like Lomberg around that never takes a shift off.

You may not agree with the role, and you may want a 4th line that scores, but Lomberg is doing exactly what he is paid to do. Scratching Lomberg and replacing him with Kerins (or insert your favourite prospect who you feel isn't getting a chance here), isn't helping. I find it pointless to insert a prospect into a situation that is not setting that prospect up for success. If Kerins comes in, it should be for the 3rd line or higher - give him an opportunity to succeed in the NHL, or keep him in the AHL playing those important minutes. Giving him 10 minutes on the bottom line makes it difficult for him to get into the game - pretty much makes it difficult for him to do anything.

Now, if you want to bring a guy like Ciona up, then that's a good argument to make in that case. Morton and King are centers, so Lomberg is irrelevant here. Maybe Bell, but he hasn't been very good thus far this season.

[Strange Brew]

Yeah honestly Lomberg is just not an issue for me. I'd much rather find space in the top 9 over the next few years for young forwards.

[SutterBrother]

It's going to be at least 5 years before the Flames are competitive again (if they do it right).

The clock STARTS when we have a 1st line elite center. The only way you get that is by drafting them. So assume it's next year, and assume they make the team as an 18 year old.

3 years until their 20 year old season. Probably not dominant until 22.

That's your minimum timeline. There are a lot of secondary pieces in place, but the main one is still on the wishlist.

With that in mind - the current culture doesn't matter.

None of these players aside from Wolf and Huberdeau (ugh) will be on the team in 2030. And Wolf doesn't give a tinker's cuss what anybody else thinks.

[Zoller]

The most surprising thing about Klapka is his speed. A man that big shouldn't be able to skate that fast.

[Goriders]

Another amazing loss

- play hard
- be competitive
- make the game interesting
- lose in the end

Perfect recipe

[Goriders]

Originally Posted by Zoller

The most surprising thing about Klapka is his speed. A man that big shouldn't be able to skate that fast.

He has decent hands too

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Strange Brew

Yeah honestly Lomberg is just not an issue for me. I'd much rather find space in the top 9 over the next few years for young forwards.

The problem is they don't have space and you can't wait to find space over the next few years.

Kerins and Morton already require waivers and aren't going to want to re-sign here in the offseason if they don't get some type of look this season.

Sure I don't disagree that Lomberg does what's asked of him, but what's being asked of him isn't enough.

He doesn't score. He's not good defensively. He doesn't PK. He's not an agitator. He's not physically intimidating. He's willing to fight but generally isn't a great fighter. He's hits but isn't a punishing hitter, he just finishes his checks.

Sure he plays his role well - but they also don't need his role to dress all 82 games, he can sit in the press box as 13th forward now and then.

In his last 10 games he has no points, no fights, 6 shots, Even, 27 hits. 43.25% xGF (by far the worst on the team, next worse is 49.0%)

He's the real Ryan Nothing Happens.

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

You may not agree with the role, and you may want a 4th line that scores, but Lomberg is doing exactly what he is paid to do. Scratching Lomberg and replacing him with Kerins (or insert your favourite prospect who you feel isn't getting a chance here), isn't helping. I find it pointless to insert a prospect into a situation that is not setting that prospect up for success. If Kerins comes in, it should be for the 3rd line or higher - give him an opportunity to succeed in the NHL, or keep him in the AHL playing those important minutes. Giving him 10 minutes on the bottom line makes it difficult for him to get into the game - pretty much makes it difficult for him to do anything.

Now, if you want to bring a guy like Ciona up, then that's a good argument to make in that case. Morton and King are centers, so Lomberg is irrelevant here. Maybe Bell, but he hasn't been very good thus far this season.

They are already playing Zary and Sharangovich - neither who have been great as NHL C's out of position as 4th line C because the 4th line LW spot isn't available.

Younger prospects I 100% agree shouldn't be on the 4th line and can benefit from AHL time - but Kerins is 23, Morton is 26 absolutely no reason those guys can't get 4th line NHL time as a way to adapt to the NHL.

[FleeceGang]

California is a really interesting case study at the moment. Sharks and ducks seem to have come out of the dark depths and are looking to be rebuilt well and on a massive upward trajectory. Perfect (sharks more than ducks) example of how to rebuild properly. Then there are the Kings.

From what I’ve seen the consensus was that they were on the right track but in 2021 kopitar and doughty both said they didn’t want to be apart of a rebuild so instead of shipping them out and commit to the rebuild management kept them and tried to make a run for it and take advantage of a weak pacific division. Now they are in no man’s land and have been passed by their neighbours and will probably live in the mushy middle for the foreseeable future.

Let’s be like the sharks and ducks, not the kings. Sell the vets, be bad for a few years, draft well and accumulate high skill players, and eventually the winning will come.

As someone here said, winning creates good culture. Losing teams always have their culture fall apart. Last year the flames had an “amazing culture” but that’s because they were projected to be where we are now but defied all expectation. The “us against the world” mentality is very galvanizing. But that culture was obviously a flash in the pan as the few years prior it didn’t exist and it sure as heck doesn’t exist this year!

Be bad, get good prospects, build a culture.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

The problem is they don't have space and you can't wait to find space over the next few years.

Kerins and Morton already require waivers and aren't going to want to re-sign here in the offseason if they don't get some type of look this season.

Sure I don't disagree that Lomberg does what's asked of him, but what's being asked of him isn't enough.

He doesn't score. He's not good defensively. He doesn't PK. He's not an agitator. He's not physically intimidating. He's willing to fight but generally isn't a great fighter. He's hits but isn't a punishing hitter, he just finishes his checks.

Sure he plays his role well - but they also don't need his role to dress all 82 games, he can sit in the press box as 13th forward now and then.

In his last 10 games he has no points, no fights, 6 shots, Even, 27 hits. 43.25% xGF (by far the worst on the team, next worse is 49.0%)

He's the real Ryan Nothing Happens.



They are already playing Zary and Sharangovich - neither who have been great as NHL C's out of position as 4th line C because the 4th line LW spot isn't available.

Younger prospects I 100% agree shouldn't be on the 4th line and can benefit from AHL time - but Kerins is 23, Morton is 26 absolutely no reason those guys can't get 4th line NHL time as a way to adapt to the NHL.

I wouldn't mind seeing Kerins and Morton play for the big club this year, but they're not the ones I'm making space for. It's the next wave of more skilled players that are still waiver eligible.

I kind of disagree that Lomberg isn't an agitator, I think he still does that.

In any case, the forwards have been awful so there should be plenty of room to play people. I want Conroy focusing on moving the bigger pieces that will get a return.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I will go above and beyond this.

A rebuilding team NEEDS a guy like Lomberg. Why?

• Keeps the team loose - you can argue he can do that while being healthy scratched, but watch him on the bench. There is value there.
• Sticks up for his teammates
• You want good vets that help kids learn how to be a pro - say what you will about Lomberg, but he is a unit, and it comes from a lot of hard work and dedication, and this can rub-off on young players
• He works hard every shift. For a team that is trying to rebuild the culture just as much as the skill-level, you probably want a guy like Lomberg around that never takes a shift off.

You may not agree with the role, and you may want a 4th line that scores, but Lomberg is doing exactly what he is paid to do. Scratching Lomberg and replacing him with Kerins (or insert your favourite prospect who you feel isn't getting a chance here), isn't helping. I find it pointless to insert a prospect into a situation that is not setting that prospect up for success. If Kerins comes in, it should be for the 3rd line or higher - give him an opportunity to succeed in the NHL, or keep him in the AHL playing those important minutes. Giving him 10 minutes on the bottom line makes it difficult for him to get into the game - pretty much makes it difficult for him to do anything.

Now, if you want to bring a guy like Ciona up, then that's a good argument to make in that case. Morton and King are centers, so Lomberg is irrelevant here. Maybe Bell, but he hasn't been very good thus far this season.

I agree that you need guys like Lomberg. I would be perfectly happy i he dressed for only 40-60 games though.

The way I see it, the problem arises from having a log jam of 3rd liners.

After the Frost/Farabee trade, the team needed to move out a couple of forwards. Now with them taking a spot on the Huberdeau and Kadri lines respectively it's impossible to find a top 9 spot for all of Zary, Sharangovich, Klapka, and Pospisil(once he gets healthy). Which means that the Flames need to lose 2-3 forwards at the same time before they would even consider calling up Kerins. That's why, from a fan perspective, it's easier to justify sitting Lomberg and playing a line like Sharangovich - Zary/Kerins - Pospisil/Klapka as the 3b line.

As far as 4th liners go, I would really like to see what we have in both Morton and Stromgren at the NHL level. Especially since Stromgren is waivers eligible next year.

[Royle9]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

The way I see it, the problem arises from having a log jam of 3rd liners.

Nailed it.
Entire roster is basically bottom 6 Forwards.
I'd argue you have 3 top 6 forwards:

Coronato
Kadri
Huberdeau

No elite top line forwards at all.