The farm is the only side saying they have been threatened with fines or arrest about testing, they are not a reliable source of information on that. And I will refer to the quote from the scientist about testing not really being an indicator of immunity.
Nobody cares about immunity. How many chicken farms have birds with immunity? You going to cull them all? If the birds have the flu virus you destroy them, if they don't wtf is the point of killing 330 ostriches that pose no current threat to anyone? This has nothing to do with the birds at this point, this is a pissing match between the farm and the government.
So after there failure to report the bird flu and refusal to follow a cull order and be compensated for there losses do you believe anything the farm is saying.
Why are you posting their information inverted after their reckless behaviour.
I am simply taking what both sides are saying into consideration. The bottom line is the farm wants the birds tested and they have wealthy backers to pay for it, it will cost the government nothing and can benefit science. The government is refusing to allow that to happen. These are the facts we know. One side is saying test the birds and we can go from there, the other side is saying we are not testing the birds to see if they are carriers and we are killing them regardless. Again, if someone can give me a legitimate reason for killing 330 ostriches that don't have Avian Flu be my guest.
That is not what you are arguing at all. You said the birds should not be tested because the full order was given, not because they may have avian flu which they can't possibly have it the herd would be dead by now. So the flock is no threat to anyone's safety unless you are arguing they could still someday contract at. If that's your argument then your stance is all birds need to be destroyed because they found represent a possible threat to people. So which is it?
The flock was positive for H5N1 avian influenza and nearly a fifth of the population died. The CFIA issued an order to cull. Normally, there is no requirement to re-test because the cull would have been carried out.
But this case is atypical since the farm refused to comply. And now, here we are almost a year later. Yes, it is possible the remaining ostriches are influenza-free; they may have never contracted the virus, they may have cleared the infection. The worst possible outcome is that their disease is subclinical and they've continued to shed the virus over the interim.
I don't want the ostriches to be destroyed; my concern is that a precedent is set that prevents the ability of the CFIA to mitigate outbreaks of high-risk pathogens. It is a slap in the face to other farmers and operations that are in compliance and have to face the very difficult repercussions of an avian influenza outbreak.
That is why I am taking a hard stance on this issue. It is pragmatism not fascism.
I am also not against improving the policy, but that takes time and study. I referenced the ongoing H5N1 outbreak in dairy cattle. The USDA elected not to cull the animals, but US dairly farming practices resulted in the original outbreak spreading across the country, spreading to other animals (cats, mice), and led to dozens of human cases. Thankfully, most of these infections were relatively benign, and there was no sign of human-to-human transmission. They are still recording new outbreaks in US dairy herds.
I personally think it would have been prohibitively costly to effectively quanrantine and monitor the ostrich flock during and after the intitial outbreak.
Regarding testing, my understanding is that it would most likely have to go through the provincial labotatory and/or NCFAD. I'm not sure if it would be admissible to have it done privately given the regulation around this virus. Furthermore, funding coming from "wealthy backers" - we know who these people are - in my opinion amounts to political interference.
A lot of effort is put into developing avian influenza vaccines (not just for H5N1). There is an evergreen list of vaccine candidate viruses that are stockpiled in small amounts and ready for manufacture if required. Livestock vaccination is not a novel concept, but it is expensive and complicated, and never seems to quite gain traction when it comes time to talk about cost. In terms of influenza, the virus can undergo something called reassortment; this is when the virus exchanges parts of its genome with another influenza virus. So you could develop and deploy a vaccine only to have it be completely useless. Again, pragmatically, I don't believe it is worth the time and cost for Canada to develop a vaccine for a non-native species like ostriches.
Finally, no, my argument is absolutely not that all birds need to be destroyed. Simply, we need to be cognizant of the fact that wild birds, particularly waterfowl, are natural reservoirs for avian influenza. And not just H5N1, but all kinds. My argument is that we therefore need to practice and enforce strong biosecurity and general safety measures. There is only so much we can control. Obviously there are industry regulations that protect the industry and workers, but this also extends to the average person. If you see a dead or distressed bird, don't touch it. Watch your pets and kids around birds and their habitats, etc., etc. Since H5N1 has become more prevalent, there is a lot more public messaging about this.
Okay, now I'm probably rambling.
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Last edited by Codes; 09-28-2025 at 07:13 PM.
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Maybe yours wasn’t prepared properly or you had the wrong cut.
Edit. I haven’t had it that often, but I would order it at a restaurant in Dubai, hardly indistinguishable from beef tenderloin. Maybe they have different stock than what is available in other places. I am by no means an expert, only going from my personal experiences.
I am simply taking what both sides are saying into consideration. The bottom line is the farm wants the birds tested and they have wealthy backers to pay for it, it will cost the government nothing and can benefit science. The government is refusing to allow that to happen. These are the facts we know. One side is saying test the birds and we can go from there, the other side is saying we are not testing the birds to see if they are carriers and we are killing them regardless. Again, if someone can give me a legitimate reason for killing 330 ostriches that don't have Avian Flu be my guest.
So moving forward health Canada will be required to test 3 or 4 million chickens when a few hundred get the flu?, that stopping a massive outbreak that could wipe out most of our chicken production will now take months and cost billions?
in order to protect 3 or 400 ostriches that would presumably have all been killed and eaten at some point?
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The flock was positive for H5N1 avian influenza and nearly a fifth of the population died. The CFIA issued an order to cull. Normally, there is no requirement to re-test because the cull would have been carried out.
But this case is atypical since the farm refused to comply. And now, here we are almost a year later. Yes, it is possible the remaining ostriches are influenza-free; they may have never contracted the virus, they may have cleared the infection. The worst possible outcome is that their disease is subclinical and they've continued to shed the virus over the interim.
I don't want the ostriches to be destroyed; my concern is that a precedent is set that prevents the ability of the CFIA to mitigate outbreaks of high-risk pathogens. It is a slap in the face to other farmers and operations that are in compliance and have to face the very difficult repercussions of an avian influenza outbreak.
That is why I am taking a hard stance on this issue. It is pragmatism not fascism.
I am also not against improving the policy, but that takes time and study. I referenced the ongoing H5N1 outbreak in dairy cattle. The USDA elected not to cull the animals, but US dairly farming practices resulted in the original outbreak spreading across the country, spreading to other animals (cats, mice), and led to dozens of human cases. Thankfully, most of these infections were relatively benign, and there was no sign of human-to-human transmission. They are still recording new outbreaks in US dairy herds.
I personally think it would have been prohibitively costly to effectively quanrantine and monitor the ostrich flock during and after the intitial outbreak.
Regarding testing, my understanding is that it would most likely have to go through the provincial labotatory and/or NCFAD. I'm not sure if it would be admissible to have it done privately given the regulation around this virus. Furthermore, funding coming from "wealthy backers" - we know who these people are - in my opinion amounts to political interference.
A lot of effort is put into developing avian influenza vaccines (not just for H5N1). There is an evergreen list of vaccine candidate viruses that are stockpiled in small amounts and ready for manufacture if required. Livestock vaccination is not a novel concept, but it is expensive and complicated, and never seems to quite gain traction when it comes time to talk about cost. In terms of influenza, the virus can undergo something called reassortment; this is when the virus exchanges parts of its genome with another influenza virus. So you could develop and deploy a vaccine only to have it be completely useless. Again, pragmatically, I don't believe it is worth the time and cost for Canada to develop a vaccine for a non-native species like ostriches.
Finally, no, my argument is absolutely not that all birds need to be destroyed. Simply, we need to be cognizant of the fact that wild birds, particularly waterfowl, are natural reservoirs for avian influenza. And not just H5N1, but all kinds. My argument is that we therefore need to practice and enforce strong biosecurity and general safety measures. There is only so much we can control. Obviously there are industry regulations that protect the industry and workers, but this also extends to the average person. If you see a dead or distressed bird, don't touch it. Watch your pets and kids around birds and their habitats, etc., etc. Since H5N1 has become more prevalent, there is a lot more public messaging about this.
Okay, now I'm probably rambling.
Thanks for the well thought out response.
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They survived AI while about 20% of the herd didn’t, the living ones are likely carriers which can mutate the strain. Mutated strains have been detected all over North America in the recent months. This has drug on for far too long, these bird should’ve been destroyed back in December. The far right/ anti government regulars (Rebel Media etc..) are running with this story like the ostriches are a bunch of truckers.
If this was twenty years ago, it would have almost certainly been a far left, pro animal rights group, arguing to keep these animals alive. It's crazy how much politics have shifted. The "freedom" crowd is also arguing for holistic medicines, abolishing the monarchy, against free trade, etc... all causes that were firmly in the far left's circle in the late 90s/early 2000s.
If this farm knew they had bird flu, and didn't report it and didn't cull their birds, #### them, they should be seeing jail time. Didn't these #######s learn anything from covid? Man #### these people and, while we're at, #### the people defending this behaviour too.
Oh. Those ostriches. My sister-in-law is being all kinds of ridiculous and stupid over these things. High drama. I've temporarily unfollowed her on everything, because it's so over the top.
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Oh. Those ostriches. My sister-in-law is being all kinds of ridiculous and stupid over these things. High drama. I've temporarily unfollowed her on everything, because it's so over the top.
You know...we dont blame Moms or Children when they get the Flu! Its not like the Ostriches went out seeking to catch the Flu! This seems like a criminally hypocritical double standard!
They're sick! We are a country with Universal Health Care! We need to help them overcome this Avian affliction!
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You know...we dont blame Moms or Children when they get the Flu! Its not like the Ostriches went out seeking to catch the Flu! This seems like a criminally hypocritical double standard!
They're sick! We are a country with Universal Health Care! We need to help them overcome this Avian affliction!
Yes, read the whole thing. Now give me a reason why the CFIA is threatening legal action if the owners have their birds tested. Why are science experts saying testing the birds would be scientifically beneficial ? Again, let them test the birds, if they fail then go ahead and cull them. Give me a valid reason against testing them.
Who are the "science experts" saying the birds should be tested?
And if so, there is no mention of any other experts saying they should be tested. And if by "last link" you meant "last line" well, no, no I really hope you didn't mean that these are who you consider experts. But they also don't mention testing.
Quote:
Notable voices from the U.S. — including TV host and now administrator Dr. Mehmet Oz, Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and billionaire John Catsimatidis — have publicly urged Canadian officials to allow the ostriches to live.
Perhaps you should clarify, link, and quote the specific bit you mean.
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And if so, there is no mention of any other experts saying they should be tested. And if by "last link" you meant "last line" well, no, no I really hope you didn't mean that these are who you consider experts. But they also don't mention testing.
Perhaps you should clarify, link, and quote the specific bit you mean.
Scott Weese, an expert in infection control who teaches at the University of Guelph’s Ontario Veterinary College, said he understands the need for the cull, but he said it would be beneficial to test the flock for the virus first.
Yes, read the whole thing. Now give me a reason why the CFIA is threatening legal action if the owners have their birds tested. Why are science experts saying testing the birds would be scientifically beneficial ? Again, let them test the birds, if they fail then go ahead and cull them. Give me a valid reason against testing them.
Well, you know it's directly below your quote.
Quote:
He agreed with Dr. Rasmussen that the tests would be costly and dangerous.
But without new testing, there is no way to tell if the birds are still infected or releasing particles ofthe virus, he noted.
It also gives others permission to ignore and delay future orders if they know there is a chance they can prove this later. Some times you just gotta trust the process instead of joining in with crazy town.
It also gives others permission to ignore and delay future orders if they know there is a chance they can prove this later. Some times you just gotta trust the process instead of joining in with crazy town.
If there are people backing the farm financially to have the testing done then why does the government or anyone care if it is costly or dangerous?
If there are people backing the farm financially to have the testing done then why does the government or anyone care if it is costly or dangerous?
Because it jeopardizes the system that keeps Canadians safe for a few law breakers. Having money doesn't give anyone the right to put public safety at risk. If someone has money, buy some new ####in' birds. This isn't complicated.
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