2023/24 No Hope Flames Rumours & Speculation Thread

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by blankall

And he ought to be worried about his job. Wolf looks good. I guess Markstrom is 33 and was likely going to be very close to retirement after his current contract ended anyways. The Flames could buy him out next off season.

Why? He could play second fiddle to Wolf if everything worked out while wolf is on his Entry level contract.

[Calgary4LIfe]

I actually quite disagree with some takes regarding Huberdeau. Huberdeau is fine defensively, and he needs to keep focusing on it as well. Growing up, I was a huge fan of the Magic Man, but the Flames weren't. He was identified as expendable, and the Flames were later proven right. Sure, Nilsson and effort issues, but those effort issues were glaring defensively, not really offensively (as most effort issues normally are).



Huberdeau is here for 8 years, and he better be effective in all areas of the ice if he wants to be a leader, and to remain an effective player throughout those 8 years. His offence is going to regress as he ages, so he better find different ways to contribute, and that really starts with having a solid defensive game.



Flames don't need him to be Mark Stone, but at the very least he could be a Mathew Tkachuk or.. a Johnny Gaudreau. Gaudreau's best season saw him being a competent player defensively. No? If Gaudreau can do it, then there is no reason why Huberdeau can not.



I actually argue that Huberdeau is competent defensively, and that he sure seemed to be giving a solid effort every night. His grittiness is so underrated, as his level of nastiness that he puts on display now and then (surprised he didn't have a fight last year, actually). I saw him try hard in all 3 zones of the ice, and he skates hard on the backcheck too and gets into good position.



However, his defensive play is NOT interfering with his offensive contribution. Just like when we saw Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk light it up when they were the best 2-way line in hockey, Huberdeau can expect to see success as well. Hartley called out Monahan years ago when Stajan and Backlund were both hurt, and Monahan had to be the first line centre in his rookie year. What did he call him out for? For being too focused on defence to the point he was cheating defensively. Huberdeau is not cheating defensively, and watching him, I didn't think his defensive game was the reason why he wasn't putting up points.


I think there are 3 reasons why Huberdeau had a tough year:
1) The move - I don't think his head was in the right space to start the season, and things just kind of spiralled for him.
2) Chemistry - I didn't see him develop any real chemistry with anyone, but outside of Backlund-Coleman, did anyone really have any chemistry on last season's team?
3) This is the biggest reason IMO - how the Flames generated offence last season was very structured.



It wasn't the defensive focus, it was the focus on playing within the offensive structure. It wasn't nearly as bad as when Brent Sutter wast the coach and forced everything up the boards and onto the cycle to the point where I specifically remember both Backlund and Jokinen seemingly have clear lanes to the net on separate occasions, and both of them hesitated and ended up dumping the puck in the corner to start a cycle. No, Darryl's system wasn't that bad, but it was overly structured still. Lots of shots, but not enough creativity and not enough off the rush where a playmaker like Huberdeau thrives.


I argue that the Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line didn't play the system. They were creative and scored a lot of goals off the rush, and developed set-plays between the three of them (especially Gaudreau and Tkachuk). They didn't cheat defensively - either focusing too much or too little on defence. They played it right defensively, and were just creative offensively. Sutter couldn't stop them from doing that - not when they found success.


I think this is specifically the reason why Conroy on separate occasions spoke about how he wants this team to play. Non-structured offensively, but structured defensively. He wants the players to use their instincts and talents creatively on offence, but then come back hard defensively.

There is absolutely NO WAY that we are going to see Huberdeau's game mirror that of Ovechkin. Heck, Ovechkin didn't win squat until he bought in defensively. If Huberdeau is going to play that type of game, it will create a rift on this team anyway. Huberdeau skating circles by the opposing team's blue line while the 4 other skaters do the heavy lifting in their own zone to try and get him the puck? Is that what it looks like?



I am not interested in seeing Magic Man part 2. I loved the Kent Nilsson back in the day, but I was also a kid who didn't realize that Kent was hurting the team just as much as he was helping it (if I am being generous).


Huberdeau should be as committed to defence this upcoming season as he was last season. It is just what happens when this team shifts to offence that needs to change in order for him to be successful. Huberdeau played on the PK in Florida too - this is a part of his game that he himself wants to grow, and I argue that his 115pt season was helped by a better defensive game, just like Gaudreau's and Tkachuk's games were too.


I am betting that we see a huge turnaround in Huberdeau this year. There are only 3 things that I disliked about Huberdeau last season - his blind spinorama backhand passes to the opposing team, his tendency to try and thread the needle unnecessarily when there is just as good of an option available that doesn't need him to thread the needle through 4 different opponents' sticks, and his overall skating speed. He cleaned up the first two as the season progressed, and his skating just seemed worse in that system as locking his offensive creativity down makes him play slower.


I think we will see a healthy rebound this upcoming year. I am more worried about the team overall, but Huberdeau will thrive in this system. I am actually glad that he had a year with Sutter further teaching him the x's and o's of better defence, but I do think he is going to flourish under a different offensive system, and to me, that's the 'key' to unlocking Huberdeau's game.

[Kipper_3434]

Originally Posted by memphusk

Why? He could play second fiddle to Wolf if everything worked out while wolf is on his Entry level contract.

Wolf's ELC is in its final year. He could earn up to a 4m 2 year bridge if he plays lights out and takes the #1 spot. Markstrom would have to go then.

[Flames_Gimp]

Originally Posted by Calgary4LIfe

I actually quite disagree with some takes regarding Huberdeau. Huberdeau is fine defensively, and he needs to keep focusing on it as well. Growing up, I was a huge fan of the Magic Man, but the Flames weren't. He was identified as expendable, and the Flames were later proven right. Sure, Nilsson and effort issues, but those effort issues were glaring defensively, not really offensively (as most effort issues normally are).



Huberdeau is here for 8 years, and he better be effective in all areas of the ice if he wants to be a leader, and to remain an effective player throughout those 8 years. His offence is going to regress as he ages, so he better find different ways to contribute, and that really starts with having a solid defensive game.



Flames don't need him to be Mark Stone, but at the very least he could be a Mathew Tkachuk or.. a Johnny Gaudreau. Gaudreau's best season saw him being a competent player defensively. No? If Gaudreau can do it, then there is no reason why Huberdeau can not.



I actually argue that Huberdeau is competent defensively, and that he sure seemed to be giving a solid effort every night. His grittiness is so underrated, as his level of nastiness that he puts on display now and then (surprised he didn't have a fight last year, actually). I saw him try hard in all 3 zones of the ice, and he skates hard on the backcheck too and gets into good position.



However, his defensive play is NOT interfering with his offensive contribution. Just like when we saw Gaudreau - Lindholm - Tkachuk light it up when they were the best 2-way line in hockey, Huberdeau can expect to see success as well. Hartley called out Monahan years ago when Stajan and Backlund were both hurt, and Monahan had to be the first line centre in his rookie year. What did he call him out for? For being too focused on defence to the point he was cheating defensively. Huberdeau is not cheating defensively, and watching him, I didn't think his defensive game was the reason why he wasn't putting up points.


I think there are 3 reasons why Huberdeau had a tough year:
1) The move - I don't think his head was in the right space to start the season, and things just kind of spiralled for him.
2) Chemistry - I didn't see him develop any real chemistry with anyone, but outside of Backlund-Coleman, did anyone really have any chemistry on last season's team?
3) This is the biggest reason IMO - how the Flames generated offence last season was very structured.



It wasn't the defensive focus, it was the focus on playing within the offensive structure. It wasn't nearly as bad as when Brent Sutter wast the coach and forced everything up the boards and onto the cycle to the point where I specifically remember both Backlund and Jokinen seemingly have clear lanes to the net on separate occasions, and both of them hesitated and ended up dumping the puck in the corner to start a cycle. No, Darryl's system wasn't that bad, but it was overly structured still. Lots of shots, but not enough creativity and not enough off the rush where a playmaker like Huberdeau thrives.


I argue that the Gaudreau-Lindholm-Tkachuk line didn't play the system. They were creative and scored a lot of goals off the rush, and developed set-plays between the three of them (especially Gaudreau and Tkachuk). They didn't cheat defensively - either focusing too much or too little on defence. They played it right defensively, and were just creative offensively. Sutter couldn't stop them from doing that - not when they found success.


I think this is specifically the reason why Conroy on separate occasions spoke about how he wants this team to play. Non-structured offensively, but structured defensively. He wants the players to use their instincts and talents creatively on offence, but then come back hard defensively.

There is absolutely NO WAY that we are going to see Huberdeau's game mirror that of Ovechkin. Heck, Ovechkin didn't win squat until he bought in defensively. If Huberdeau is going to play that type of game, it will create a rift on this team anyway. Huberdeau skating circles by the opposing team's blue line while the 4 other skaters do the heavy lifting in their own zone to try and get him the puck? Is that what it looks like?



I am not interested in seeing Magic Man part 2. I loved the Kent Nilsson back in the day, but I was also a kid who didn't realize that Kent was hurting the team just as much as he was helping it (if I am being generous).


Huberdeau should be as committed to defence this upcoming season as he was last season. It is just what happens when this team shifts to offence that needs to change in order for him to be successful. Huberdeau played on the PK in Florida too - this is a part of his game that he himself wants to grow, and I argue that his 115pt season was helped by a better defensive game, just like Gaudreau's and Tkachuk's games were too.


I am betting that we see a huge turnaround in Huberdeau this year. There are only 3 things that I disliked about Huberdeau last season - his blind spinorama backhand passes to the opposing team, his tendency to try and thread the needle unnecessarily when there is just as good of an option available that doesn't need him to thread the needle through 4 different opponents' sticks, and his overall skating speed. He cleaned up the first two as the season progressed, and his skating just seemed worse in that system as locking his offensive creativity down makes him play slower.


I think we will see a healthy rebound this upcoming year. I am more worried about the team overall, but Huberdeau will thrive in this system. I am actually glad that he had a year with Sutter further teaching him the x's and o's of better defence, but I do think he is going to flourish under a different offensive system, and to me, that's the 'key' to unlocking Huberdeau's game.

I agree we will see the Huby we expected!

we got him when the team was on the edge of giving up on Sutter, essentially turning into a broken dressing room, which imo is why we had a great start to the season and then went downhill and missed the playoffs.

New coach new start coming and it will inject new enthusiasm and motivation, i will be shocked if they don't make the playoffs.

[FlamesAddiction]

If Wolf supplants Markstrom as the number 1 goalie, Markstrom might just request to get moved. He is getting up in age, but I assume he will still be looking for 1 more contract before he retires. Being relegated to back-up would not help his negotiating power.

Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if Vladar could push him out or at least take a lot of games from him.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by FlamesAddiction

If Wolf supplants Markstrom as the number 1 goalie, Markstrom might just request to get moved. He is getting up in age, but I assume he will still be looking for 1 more contract before he retires. Being relegated to back-up would help his negotiating power.

Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if Vladar could push him out or at least take a lot of games from him.

I would be surprised if Vladar was better than Markstrom this season. I base it mostly on how they were getting beat. For Markstrom a lot of it seemed mental, letting the first shot in, and then him overcompensating by playing small. That doesn't align with how he has been playing in his entire career.

Vladar started to get beat up high more and more regularly as the season went along. Vladar seemed better at just making me jump out of my sit with a save, but Markstrom looked like the far superior goalie after his kid was born.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Think there might be something to the 5-1 start?

Like that's what the roster was capable of before the coaching circus and resentments took hold? The problems started as soon as Sutter changed the lines to those weird ones despite the early success of the original lines.

[1qqaaz]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I would be surprised if Vladar was better than Markstrom this season. I base it mostly on how they were getting beat. For Markstrom a lot of it seemed mental, letting the first shot in, and then him overcompensating by playing small. That doesn't align with how he has been playing in his entire career.

Vladar started to get beat up high more and more regularly as the season went along. Vladar seemed better at just making me jump out of my sit with a save, but Markstrom looked like the far superior goalie after his kid was born.

Markstrom was actually a fair bit better than Vladar this past year if you look beyond the W-L record and the save percentage.

Vladar's goals saved above expected per 60 was -0.340, which was among the worst in the leagues.

Markstrom's was -0.055. Still terrible for the contract, but at least fine as a backup.

Wolf, in his tiny sample size, had +1.402. He surely had a strong goals saved above expected per 60 in the AHL as well.

I agree with those who opt for getting rid of Vladar and then using Markstrom as a 1B or later, backup, while Wolf is on his ELC.

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I would be surprised if Vladar was better than Markstrom this season. I base it mostly on how they were getting beat. For Markstrom a lot of it seemed mental, letting the first shot in, and then him overcompensating by playing small. That doesn't align with how he has been playing in his entire career.

Vladar started to get beat up high more and more regularly as the season went along. Vladar seemed better at just making me jump out of my sit with a save, but Markstrom looked like the far superior goalie after his kid was born.

I get the case for Markstrom rebounding. If that happens, and to what level, remains to be seen. But I also see Vladar as a goalie potentially on the rise. The good thing is that there isn't a real rush to make a decision until we see if Markstrom rebounds, and if Vladar is on the rise. I don't think it's outside the realm of possibility that Markstrom's and Vladar's trajectories intersect this season, or the following season. I really think Vladar, like most goalies his age, would benefit from playing on a more regular basis though. It's hard to come in cold all the time.

Fortunately, this is one area where the Flames can be a little patient.

[memphusk]

Originally Posted by Kipper_3434

Wolf's ELC is in its final year. He could earn up to a 4m 2 year bridge if he plays lights out and takes the #1 spot. Markstrom would have to go then.

Thank you for this. I was unaware.

[gvitaly]

I didn't know where to add this, so I figured this is the thread that can use the most hope.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1695901861260529852

https://twitter.com/user/status/1695902000062533897

[Sandman]

Got high hopes for my boy, Connor Zary!

[blankall]

I keep beating the same drum, but this year the Flames are going to see one of the biggest infusions of rookie and other young depth talent the organization has ever seen. Just think about how much more exciting it's going to be to have guys like Zary in the bottom six instead of.....Nick Ritchie.....or Brett Ritchie....

[TheIronMaiden]

I don't know if I could be any higher than I am on Pelletier. He may be my favorite Flame going into next season. He plays like a pro. Forecheck, Backcheck, Paycheque.

[SeanCharles]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

I didn't know where to add this, so I figured this is the thread that can use the most hope.

https://twitter.com/user/status/1695902000062533897

Winnipeg really needs to give Heinola a shot or trade him.

[Bourque's Twin]

Forwards who will 100% make the team:
Huberdeau, Kadri, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman, Dube, Sharangovich.

This leaves room for 4 more.
Pelletier, Duehr, Coronato, Ruzicka are probably the 4. Zary is most likely next.

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Coronato
Mangiapane - Kadri - Dube
Coleman - Backlund - Pelletier
Duehr - Ruzicka - Sharangovich

I think the RW position will see a lot of movement amongst lines.

[Paulie Walnuts]

No way Sharangovich is being dumped on the 4th line after getting that deal.

[FlamesAddiction]

I actually still have some apprehension about Pelletier's immediate upside. He was starting to slow down a little the more he played the more punishment he took.

I am sure a lot of rookies, especially undersized ones, go through that and have to experience it in order to adjust and learn how to play at an NHL place, so I am no writing him off by any means. I just think his ice-time should be carefully managed to shelter him a little until he develops more. At least based off of last season. Who knows, maybe it clicked for him and he comes into camp as a better player for having the experience.

[gvitaly]

Originally Posted by Bourque's Twin

Forwards who will 100% make the team:
Huberdeau, Kadri, Lindholm, Mangiapane, Backlund, Coleman, Dube, Sharangovich.

This leaves room for 4 more.
Pelletier, Duehr, Coronato, Ruzicka are probably the 4. Zary is most likely next.

Huberdeau - Lindholm - Coronato
Mangiapane - Kadri - Dube
Coleman - Backlund - Pelletier
Duehr - Ruzicka - Sharangovich

I think the RW position will see a lot of movement amongst lines.

Jones will make the team, and I think he and Duehr will be fan favorites on the 4th line.

[Bourque's Twin]

Originally Posted by gvitaly

Jones will make the team, and I think he and Duehr will be fan favorites on the 4th line.

Who sits at that point? Ruczicka and Coronato?