[PGT] Nsh 4 Flames 1

[home_sweet_dome]

Play stupid lines, win stupid prizes

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by dino7c

The way Lucic and Ritchie have played this season are the last of the Flames problems...both guys are better than expected

You know you can be a fan of the team and still criticize them every once in while right? You don’t have to defend every single decision the team makes.

You’re right they aren’t the problem, their usage is the problem.

Lucic and Lewis have both played way too many minutes this year, both are 4th liners being asked to play top 9 minutes at times. In no world should Lucic, Lewis, Ritchie ever play more minutes 5v5 than Backlund and Coleman in a game.

When those guys are playing limited minutes on the 4th line they are an advantage, when you ask them to play up the lineup they are production killers. Lucic hasn’t scored in 68 games!

Sutter is falling in love with “His Guys” and it’s hurting the team.

This team has needed at least one top 9 forward for 2 seasons now. They went and got Toffoli and Jarnkrok last year. But with Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Jarnkrok gone they still lack another.

Matthew Phillips has 131 points in his last 140 AHL games. That leads all players under 25 in that time, and is 8th among guys that played at least 50 games in PPG. He’s received 1 NHL game for his efforts, and isn’t even given games with the NHLers in training camp as a reward.

No wonder the AHLers seem deflated, they realize Sutter is too stubborn to ever give any of them a look.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

You know you can be a fan of the team and still criticize them every once in while right? You don’t have to defend every single decision the team makes.

You’re right they aren’t the problem, their usage is the problem.

Lucic and Lewis have both played way too many minutes this year, both are 4th liners being asked to play top 9 minutes. In no world such Lucic, Lewis, Ritchie ever play more minutes 5v5 than Backlund and Coleman.

When those guys are playing limited minutes on the 4th line they are an advantage, when you ask them to play up the lineup they are production killers. Lucic hasn’t scored in 68 games!

Sutter is falling in love with “His Guys” and it’s hurting the team.

This team has needed at least one top 9 forward for 2 seasons now. They went and got Toffoli and Jarnkrok last year. But with Gaudreau, Tkachuk, and Jarnkrok done they still lack another.

Matthew Phillips has 131 points in his last 140 AHL games. That leads all players under 25 in that time, and is 8th among guys that played at least 50 games in PPG. He’s received 1 NHL game for his efforts, and isn’t even given games with the NHLers in training camp as a reward.

No wonder the AHLers seem deflated, they realize Sutter is too stubborn to ever give any of them a look.

I literally criticized the top guys in the part of my post you removed

Sutter is playing guys that are playing the right way...its a temporary thing and setting a standard for others to follow

[D as in David]

I don't agree. The reason Sutter is playing Lucic and Lewis so much is because they are out playing the other players. Sutter seems to be reluctant to reward players who aren't playing up to their potential. Can't say I disagree with that approach. The other players (should) know they're garbage right now and recognize why some 4th line players are getting more time than they would normally deserve.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

Originally Posted by Cecil Terwilliger

Is Quenneville available?

hey it can't be worse than employing kane, mactavish and nicholson and giving virtanen a long interview

[TheScorpion]

I don't think Lucic is outplaying anyone. He's playing more, sure. Has a good shift here and there. But his current level of play is by far the worst we've seen from him since he arrived.

He's been very good in the past. Right now, he's just awful.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

I don't think Lucic is outplaying anyone.

have you actually watched the Flames this season?

[TheScorpion]

Sure have. If one goal in 68 games is still acceptable for a forward, then Brian McGrattan retired far too early.

[TrentCrimmIndependent]

looch needs to be stapled to line 4 . besides those three played better together than our first line at even strength ! it's not even just a he's too far up the line up issue .. 3 lines working was better than 0 .

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by TheScorpion

Sure have. If one goal in 68 games is still acceptable for a forward, then Brian McGrattan retired far too early.

I thought we were talking about this season...9 games last I checked. He has 3 points and leads the team in hits. Has setup a ton of chances turning over the puck on the forecheck.

If you want him back on the fourth line where him, Ritchie, and Rooney were dominating the other 4th lines that is fair but to say he hasn't outplayed anyone is ridiculous.

[TheScorpion]

I'd take him back on the fourth line in an instant but I still think he's the third-best guy on that unit. I've liked both Ritchie and Rooney quite a bit.

[Mindtravellee]

I don't get this "they need to get on the road, they've been home too long". Sounds like something a good old lock in wouldn't fix (is that a thing in Canada?).

When do the waivers expire? This would be a good time to call people up before they need waivers again. In a way I hope Tanev goes onto IR and they actually call up some of the top performing AHL players.

[Ferarri]

I have full confidence in the reigning Jack Adams coach of the year. Some questionable decisions with the lines but he sees this group everyday and knows what it takes to get them going. With new players we should expect an adjustment period. Lots of holes in our game at the moment but coaching is the least of my concerns.

[CGY12]

What sticks out to me:

- The line combinations dont work at all, normally you want to give it some time but pretty much all lines maybe except Backs line look disjointed

- The turnovers aren't starting to get ridiculous, its obviously a by product of guys figuring out new pairings/linemates but wow the fist 10 min of the 2nd, I think i counted at least 10

- The pp that looked so good the first 6 looks like none of them have played on the pp before now

- This team needs to hit the road in the worst way. This is way to long of a home stand for a new squad. Get on the road, have dinner, hit the bars, have a pint and start building the camaraderie

I'm still not worried. This is a top 5 team. The road trip can't come soon enough.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Mindtravellee

I don't get this "they need to get on the road, they've been home too long". Sounds like something a good old lock in wouldn't fix (is that a thing in Canada?).

When do the waivers expire? This would be a good time to call people up before they need waivers again. In a way I hope Tanev goes onto IR and they actually call up some of the top performing AHL players.

Dude

Anyway his replacement is Mackey who is already in the lineup now and is basically and AHL callup since he would be there if Kylington and Tanev were healthy

[CGY12]

Originally Posted by Mindtravellee

I don't get this "they need to get on the road, they've been home too long". Sounds like something a good old lock in wouldn't fix (is that a thing in Canada?).

When do the waivers expire? This would be a good time to call people up before they need waivers again. In a way I hope Tanev goes onto IR and they actually call up some of the top performing AHL players.

Its a new team with a new core. Lot of key new faces. Road trips help the team build that camaraderie and it can sometimes be easier than playing at home where you aren't gripping your stick quite as much.

[KootenayFlamesFan]

Dube-Kadri-Magiapane line was excellent to start this season.

It's just weird they were broken up. Lucic is playing in the top 6. The 4th line was taking offensive zone faceoffs after icings. Sutter is a good coach, but this week has been a head-scratcher........to put it mildly.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by KootenayFlamesFan

Dube-Kadri-Magiapane line was excellent to start this season.

It's just weird they were broken up. Lucic is playing in the top 6. The 4th line was taking offensive zone faceoffs after icings. Sutter is a good coach, but this week has been a head-scratcher........to put it mildly.

4th line after icings and TV timeouts when you’re down a goal in the third is more baffling than the line combinations.

He’s also played them way too much against McDavid in the two games vs the Oilers. Think it was 4th line on the ice when McDavid scored Saturday

[genetic_phreek]

With Tanev out, I didn't think Mackey looked great either. I actually thought that kid Solovyov outplayed Mackey in the preseason.

In regards to Phillips, he wasn't bad in preseason, he never got a true opportunity to play with NHL players. It's crazy that we've been missing a RW for so many years and no matter what we don't try Phillips on there for a couple games.

Come next year when we need to do cap gymnastics maybe some young guys get an opportunity.

[FusionX]

Maybe I'm a big homer or perhaps this is simply what I'm hoping, but this also comes from trusting that Sutter and co clearly also see that things are just... off these last 2 games.

What I feel is going on, or hope is going on, is an experiment of sorts for the long haul. I don't think anyone is truly overreacting to the Edmonton game, but I do wonder if it wasn't a wake up call in a way.

The team had looked pretty good, getting wins, but still had to claw back in two of those. The top line has been meh, but being carried by the second primarily. Line 3 has been ok as well, but not generating much, line 4 has been good.

While wins are great, I think the type of win that Sutter is preaching is one where we would have/should have won against Edmonton. It's not spotting teams 2 goal leads and coming back, and it's certainly not mounting a furious comeback against Buffalo just to have it all go poof in the 3rd.

The line changes/juggling and persistence in continuing with them isn't that they don't understand they may win more even with just the initial lines, but that they want to instill a particular way of winning, one that is consistent, systematic, and most importantly, effective in the playoffs. Getting the wins early in the season has given them the chance to do so right now, knowing that perhaps the results aren't there currently, but that if this particular way of winning can be taught now, the results will come when it truly matters.

Contrasting this to the bums up north, they truly only know one way to win. Their game management centers around when to put flybyDrai with McSolo and how much to play them each game. They have no other way to win, nor does it seem like they care to try and find another way. They'll certainly continue to have their share of wins during the regular season, but the way I see it, they're not truly preparing now in terms of systems/playstyle to have ultimate success. They will live, and die by how those two fare, and how well opponents shut them down.

For us, the goal isn't to win these games now (yes, we need to at least make the playoffs but I'm not worried about that), but to use the early wins + an extended homestand to try and mold a true winning team for the future.

Or, I could be completely nuts and our coaching staff is blind. Meh.