[Rumour] TSN: Flames likely to be quiet at the trade deadline

[powderjunkie]

Originally Posted by Huntingwhale

Quoted for truth. Of all the goofy things Burke did, this was one of the goofiest. He was so concerned about the Flames getting lowballed that we lost Cammy for literally nothing. So dumb.

In 2021 are teams looking back at the Flames standing firm that day and thinking they now need to offer us a 2nd because lessons were learned on that fateful day?

Such a dumb position to take and the Flames were once again losers on that outcome. If a pending UFA is going to leave for nothing like some guys are, trade them 7th rounders or whatever. Don't let them leave for nothing. It's one thing if it's a hockey trade you obviously don't take the lowball trade. But for a pending UFA, get something anything for a guy who is leaving regardless.

3rd rd or later picks in 2014:

Point
Foegele
Merzlikins
Sorokin (these two are probably moot since we picked MacDonald)
Wallmark
Arvidsson
Heinen
Forsling
Lindblom
Labanc
Olofsson
Engvall
Kase
a handful of others who look likely to play a few more seasons

2015:
Cirelli
Malgin
M Joseph
Garland
Bear
Troy Terry
Gaudette
Marino
Nutivaara
handful of others.

Shirley someone would've paid a 3rd, or a 4th+6th.


Especially this year, we need to take all of the 6ths and 7ths we can get.

Originally Posted by getbak

That was a ridiculous year for Cammalleri. He had 22 points in 44 games before the trade deadline, then he had 23 in 19 games after the deadline.

He was tied for third overall in points after the trade deadline that year. If anyone would have seen that coming, Burke would definitely have received what he was asking for.

Accept a 4th with performance conditions to improve it FFS. Cammi ended up leading the Flames to a bunch more points down the stretch...probably not enough to close the cap to EDM who finished 10pts behind, but who knows.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

3rd rd or later picks in 2014:

Point
Foegele
Merzlikins
Sorokin (these two are probably moot since we picked MacDonald)
Wallmark
Arvidsson
Heinen
Forsling
Lindblom
Labanc
Olofsson
Engvall
Kase
a handful of others who look likely to play a few more seasons

2015:
Cirelli
Malgin
M Joseph
Garland
Bear
Troy Terry
Gaudette
Marino
Nutivaara
handful of others.

Shirley someone would've paid a 3rd, or a 4th+6th.

Look, just because Shirley Someone was the first female GM in the history of the NHL does not mean that she would have paid more for Cammalleri than a male GM. How dare you?

[FlamesAddiction]

Originally Posted by Sylvanfan

Flames could be a bit like that 2013 Avalanche team was. This team would need some serious luck to win the lottery and get into a top 3 pick, but the idea of basically trading everyone else from the current team over a 3 year time frame save maybe one or two guys to have better team 7 years from now is pretty valid.

Ignoring the 2021 draft which looks pretty putrid, the 2022 and 2023 drafts have some crazy high talent. You don't see back-to-back drafts like this often, so it is a good time to hedge your bets.

2022 - 1 "generational talent" plus 2 franchise player level prospects
2023 - 2 "generational talents".

That's potentially 5 franchise game changing players over 2 drafts. The 2022 draft is expected to have more impactful players throughout the top 10. While there is no guarantee the Flames would win the lottery in either year, you don't have to to get a really good player. Chances like this don't come up often. The Flames are not going to be contending for anything in the near future anyway. It's the perfect time to take this kind of risk.

[MrMike]

I agree. Quit building this team to “just get in”. Now is the right time to do it properly.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by sureLoss

Insider trading:
https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/video/insider...ilable~2175238

Flames likely to be quiet at the trade deadline
Treliving is open to anything but the deals he wants to do typically wait until the offseason
Flames are taking calls and received interest on Rittich
Been more quiet on Ryan and lower priced pending UFAs

Wait until the offseason? Boy that has worked out so well the last two years as Treliving basically sat on his hands doing nothing to improve the top 6 or scoring depth upfront.

In fact, the Flames haven't made a truly significant player trade since the Lindholm/Hanafin trade all the way back in 2018. This in itself is completely mind boggling when you think about how far below expectations the Flames have been during this time.

[Fighting Banana Slug]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Wait until the offseason? Boy that has worked out so well the last two years as Treliving basically sat on his hands doing nothing to improve the top 6 or scoring depth upfront.

In fact, the Flames haven't made a truly significant player trade since the Lindholm/Hanafin trade all the way back in 2018. This in itself is completely mind boggling when you think about how far below expectations the Flames have been during this time.

It takes 2 to tango. I don't see buyers having the ability to offer much up at the deadline due to cap constraints, further complicated by the expansion draft, covid, etc. Summer is likely the only time a bigger deal can get done.

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Wait until the offseason? Boy that has worked out so well the last two years as Treliving basically sat on his hands doing nothing to improve the top 6 or scoring depth upfront.

In fact, the Flames haven't made a truly significant player trade since the Lindholm/Hanafin trade all the way back in 2018. This in itself is completely mind boggling when you think about how far below expectations the Flames have been during this time.

Treliving also signed Neal, and though that was a huge mistake in evaluating character, it was obviously an attempt to improve scoring depth upfront. As was his trade for Kadri last year.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Wait until the offseason? Boy that has worked out so well the last two years as Treliving basically sat on his hands doing nothing to improve the top 6 or scoring depth upfront...

Setting aside the fact that the absence of any trades to improve the top-six in no way reflects Treliving's efforts and obvious desire to make changes, I am curious to know what it is that you expect to happen before the off-season. The market for core players like Monahan, Gaudreau and Giordano is substantially smaller right now than it will be in the summer, and teams are much more limited in terms of what they can actually do. "Waiting until the offseason" is a product of the market. That is all.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

Wait until the offseason? Boy that has worked out so well the last two years as Treliving basically sat on his hands doing nothing to improve the top 6 or scoring depth upfront.

In fact, the Flames haven't made a truly significant player trade since the Lindholm/Hanafin trade all the way back in 2018. This in itself is completely mind boggling when you think about how far below expectations the Flames have been during this time.

A little perspective.

Yeah they had trouble offensively last year that would have been hard to see coming after the previous season, but defensively (and goaltending) were a bigger concern and both those were addressed.

The year previous though, the team finished 2nd IIRC in the entire league in goals for, so there was literally no reason to add at that point.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by GioforPM

Treliving also signed Neal, and though that was a huge mistake in evaluating character, it was obviously an attempt to improve scoring depth upfront. As was his trade for Kadri last year.

Treliving was also in talks about acquiring Anderson, and Dubois a few months ago. Ryan Pinder has stated that Monahan was being shopped at the last deadline. But, if things don't always go your way it is because you are "sitting on your hands."

[Bingo]

This is just a click bait article for a Canadian market.

Worked I guess with six pages of discussion.

Many of us having been saying all along that this would be a quiet deadline compared to some of the posters expectations, that was pretty clear.

So quiet ... sure. But that doesn't mean two or three bodies don't move out for picks.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by powderjunkie

Especially this year, we need to take all of the 6ths and 7ths we can get.

I think those will even be tough to wrangle off teams this year. At best you might be able to trade a guy like Stone with your own 7th for someone else's 6th and take on some lifetime AHL'er with a year left on his deal. So maybe teams might see Stone and Nestorov as guys to keep as a 9-10 defenceman for a longer run and the thought of falling from pick 175 to 190 being worth it. But I don't see much other than the three frequently mentioned guys as being able to get a pick back or prospect who maybe has longshot type NHL potential.

[Hot_Flatus]

Originally Posted by transplant99

A little perspective.

Yeah they had trouble offensively last year that would have been hard to see coming after the previous season, but defensively (and goaltending) were a bigger concern and both those were addressed.

The year previous though, the team finished 2nd IIRC in the entire league in goals for, so there was literally no reason to add at that point.

There was plenty of reason to explore changes, even minor ones as this is something all the high end teams do. Top clubs are never satisfied and always looking to add. For starters, even in the season where the Flames finished 2nd, they collapsed badly down the stretch and into the playoffs, resulting in another lackluster result when they were completely outclassed by the Avalanche.

Spin it however you want to, but the bottom line is that this group hasn't done anything when it matters. If Tre has been shopping Monahan and hasn't been able to get it done, it suggests his evaluation of a really bad player is just way too high (see Bennett for similar evidence).

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by Hot_Flatus

There was plenty of reason to explore changes, even minor ones as this is something all the high end teams do...

This is exactly what the Flames were doing even before the 2019 playoffs.

[Strange Brew]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Treliving was also in talks about acquiring Anderson, and Dubois a few months ago. Ryan Pinder has stated that Monahan was being shopped at the last deadline. But, if things don't always go your way it is because you are "sitting on your hands."

It's because you didn't get it done. Sitting on your hands is an expression, one that I have occasionally used, perhaps poorly. Used more as an expression of results vs. effort. More accurately, should say that he tried to lift his buttcheeks off the chair but was unsuccessful and remained sitting on his hands.

IMO making offers on Kadri, Anderson, Stone, Dubois, Hall and Zucker is not the same as acquiring them. Would you agree that another offseon of making trade offers that get rejected would be a disappointment? Or should we be happy that he didn't make a horrible trade?

[Calgary4LIfe]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Most of their UFAs aren't that interesting.
Rittich and maybe Ryan.
The rest? Why would teams want our cruddy UFA to be players?

Depends on what the other team needs, really, and if/what injuries they have.


Does a team need someone that excels on the PK? They can have Nordstrom for a 5th/6th/7th - whatever.


Are they small and want to add a bit of size and speed to their team, like Tampa did? Ritchie can help (obviously not in the top 6 like the Flames are utilizing him). Again, a 5th/6th/7th.


Stone has been decent since he returned, and has a canon, and uses his size well. Nesterov is a decent puck moving defencemen - both depth pieces, sure, but guys you can get a 7th for.


Don't forget that the Flames also have cap room banked as well. Maybe the other team needs to get rid of a body - that's an opportunity as well.


I do expect 2-3 players to move, but to me that's still 'quiet'. Moving low-value UFAs that you probably don't intend to re-sign is quiet. Moving one core piece is noisy.



I bet that Bennett won't move, and I will even be surprised if Rittich moves, but 2 or 3 depth guys for low draft picks? They may be 'cruddy' to you, but I do think these players can definitely be moved if there is a role on a team for them, and they will serve a purpose.

[CliffFletcher]

Originally Posted by Textcritic

Well, not exactly. Duchene was moved because he requested a trade, and that didn't happen until 2017. O'Reilly was traded in 2015, and Tyson Barrie was moved just last year. It is more accurate to say that Colorado moved these players because they could afford to, after having drafted the likes of MacKinnon, Raantenen and Makar.

They didn’t know what they had in Rantanen and Makar at that point (Rantanen in particular has surpassed all expectations). There was a lot of turmoil and anger in Colorado at that time. Players seemingly didn’t want to play there, MacKinnon wasn’t progressing as hoped, and Sakic was getting roasted by pundits. There was the whole looking forward to partying in Vegas schmozzle. Things turned around over the next year or so, but at the time it was looking as though the rebuild had failed.

[blankall]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

They didn’t know what they had in Rantanen and Makar at that point (Rantanen in particular has surpassed all expectations). There was a lot of turmoil and anger in Colorado at that time. Players seemingly didn’t want to play there, MacKinnon wasn’t progressing as hoped, and Sakic was getting roasted by pundits. There was the whole looking forward to partying in Vegas schmozzle. Things turned around over the next year or so, but at the time it was looking as though the rebuild had failed.

Colorado is really a rebuild that happened in spite of some downright awful moves and team building. Colorado is in no way a model on how to do things properly.

[Textcritic]

Originally Posted by blankall

Colorado is really a rebuild that happened in spite of some downright awful moves and team building. Colorado is in no way a model on how to do things properly.

Yeah it's a cautionary tale as much as anything: it shows just how important an elite NHL centre is to team building, but also how fragile that process of development can be for even the best players.

[Sylvanfan]

Originally Posted by CliffFletcher

They didn’t know what they had in Rantanen and Makar at that point (Rantanen in particular has surpassed all expectations). There was a lot of turmoil and anger in Colorado at that time. Players seemingly didn’t want to play there, MacKinnon wasn’t progressing as hoped, and Sakic was getting roasted by pundits. There was the whole looking forward to partying in Vegas schmozzle. Things turned around over the next year or so, but at the time it was looking as though the rebuild had failed.

My point was they had started a rebuild...fell pretty hard, but by trading some of the guys from that first rebuild plus getting some new talent have been able to emerge as a pretty strong team.

That said, they were epically bad to the point that they protected Blake Comeau in the expansion draft. They've also had a few higher first round picks like Duncan Seimens and Tyson Jost who busted or are playing lower roster roles than the draft slot would suggest.

Ultimately though, they have made changes, and found a way to make it work. It has taken some time though as it's 12 years since they got O'Reilly and Duchene, and their bottom out was in 2017 which was 8 years after that.

Flames went bad in 2013...8 years ago...so rebuild the crap out of this thing and be better by 2025!

I am serious about taking 3 years to rebuild, and it's likley not till 2026-27 that the team would be stocked to the point where it is as good as Colorado is now. Of course...you could Buffalo yourself too and keep sucking forever.