Flames at Pride reaction

[FlamesAddiction]

I do agree with the one poster that said they don't even look twice at this sort of thing anymore. It's become normal now for NHL players to show support for this cause, which can only be seen as a positive. The first few times it happened, it seemed radical in a lot of ways, but now it is a regular and anticipated part of the Flames being in the community..

The players that volunteer for it still deserve credit for it of course.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by Kidder

Illuminaughty. I went back to reread your original and subsequent posts.

Your original point had some validity. I'll concede the homophobe and bigot label gets tossed around quite liberally and often too soon.

I think the point was a bit of a tangent to the purpose of the thread, and that's what's caused some vitriol to be thrown your way.

I'm not sure if you're homophobic. I certainly wouldnt label you a homophobe based on what you've said to this point in the thread. But I hope you've taken this discussion as an opportunity to learn about why this is important to a faction of our society, and deserves respect.

Studies have shown GLBT youth are 3-4 times as likely to attempt suicide.

Gay posters here have shared that having Flames participate in a parade like this makes a difference to themselves and other members in the community, of which I share and agree.

Therefore if you can acknowledge those two points and agree it might be beneficial that the Flames do participate in this parade, it would likely dispel any wrongful attacks you may feel are directed toward you.

I agree, the struggle is real for GLBT people. But how can we get to a point of universal acceptance within a society of the GLBT community, when any form of discussion against, immediately brands you as a homophobe. That's the same logic that oppressed these people in the past, and is very hypocritical of supposedly tolerant progressive forward thinking people.

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Depends what you mean by general public. As a rational person I could see someone's point that they really like the Flames and that the person feels the Flames should focus on practicing and staying in shape so we can win a championship one day.

Yes, this is quite rational. I'm a rational person. I really like the Flames and I feel they should focus on practicing and staying in shape so they can win a championship one day.

That's why when I saw a Flames player at the Audi dealership getting his winter tires put on I thought "hey, he should be focused on practicing and staying in shape! What's he doing here getting his winter tires put on?". I didn't say anything, but I wanted to.

Then in mid-December, I saw another member of the team carrying shopping bags on 8th Ave. He had a lot of them too. No idea what he was going to do with all that stuff, but whatever.

My point (and I believe your point too) is that it's perfectly rational as a Flames fan to believe that they should at all times be focused on practicing, staying in shape, and winning championships. I have nothing against winter tires or December shopping.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I agree, the struggle is real for GLBT people. But how can we get to a point of universal acceptance within a society of the GLBT community, when any form of discussion against, immediately brands you as a homophobe. That's the same logic that oppressed these people in the past, and is very hypocritical of supposedly tolerant progressive forward thinking people.

"Discussion against"


Against what?

Equality, basic Human Rights?

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by Makarov

Isn't that precisely what happened? You posted your opinion and a lot of posters disagreed with you. It's not like the moderators banned you for posting against the grain.

And if you're having difficulty defending your position (to the extent that you wish you hadn't posted it at all), perhaps it's time to reconsider your position. In fact, it seems to me that this sort of discourse and process is exactly how society should solve its issues (marketplace of ideas and all that).

I feel I've defended my position adequately. Why would I reconsider when most of the people that had a problem with what I initially stated, ended up proving my statement correct, with all the vitriolic remarks.

I should be making better use of my time in hindsight though, for what its worth.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

"Discussion against"


Against what?

Equality, basic Human Rights?

That if you have a problem with the flames marching in the gay pride parade, it is solely because you are a homophobe.

[combustiblefuel]

I think its great the that High profile sport players like the Flames support the LGBT community. Kida growing into the skin appreciate seeing high profile community members support them. The LGBT community hasnt always had this kind of support . In the majority. Of the World they still a persecuted (Killed,beaten, thrown in jail).Who knows maybe there is a young or even older Flames fan somewhere in one of those countries like Russia who logs on to Flames.com. and sees they are supporting Pride. It's not just a local community thing anymore with how ingrained the internet has become in our lives.

[undercoverbrother]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

That if you have a problem with the flames marching in the gay pride parade, it is solely because you are a homophobe.

But I don't think you have stated, in a pointed sentence, why you are against it.

Perhaps you can distill it down to a 1 or 2 sentence reason.

[Timbo]

Good for the Flames. I fully support their involvement and participation.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

That if you have a problem with the flames marching in the gay pride parade, it is solely because you are a homophobe.

What other reason would there be?

[dino7c]

good for the organization to be involved...players should make their own decisions to attend

I have zero problem with the parade itself but I personally won't be attending and certainly wouldn't bring my kids...too many assless chaps and g-strigs gay or not

honestly they should drop the nudity and obscene outfits if they want the general public involved...I couldn't walk down the street naked any other day of the year

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I feel I've defended my position adequately. Why would I reconsider when most of the people that had a problem with what I initially stated, ended up proving my statement correct, with all the vitriolic remarks.

I should be making better use of my time in hindsight though, for what its worth.

If you think this thread, which has been pretty tame, is "vitriol", then you're confused by the word. If this is a "witch hunt", as has been mentioned, then what would real oppression be called?

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by undercoverbrother

But I don't think you have stated, in a pointed sentence, why you are against it.

Perhaps you can distill it down to a 1 or 2 sentence reason.

I'm not against them marching or not marching in the parade, it's irrelevant to me. I'm against the assumption and narrow thinking that if your against them marching, you are automatically branded a homophobe. It's not that cut and dry to me.

[dino7c]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I'm not against them marching or not marching in the parade, it's irrelevant to me. I'm against the assumption and narrow thinking that if your against them marching, you are automatically branded a homophobe. It's not that cut and dry to me.

I know a openly gay man that hates the pride parade because of the stereotype's it reinforces with many of the participants outfits ect.

I suppose he is a gay homophobe?

[FlamesFanInEdmonton]

I'm all for the Flames participating in any community event. Maybe I'm a little old school or something but to be honest I don't understand these parades...admittedly perhaps that's because I'm not gay. For the record, I don't care what someone's sexual orientation is. I'm all for the freedom to be who you want to be in this world as long as it doesn't hurt other people. I guess my thinking is, in holding a parade like this is it not accomplishing the exact opposite of what the parade is for? It's almost like trying to segregate yourself from the rest of the community. To me it says "hey look at us...we're different"...when I think the message should be you're not different at all. There is nothing abnormal about it. Your gay. I'm straight. So what? We are all still people.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by the2bears

If you think this thread, which has been pretty tame, is "vitriol", then you're confused by the word. If this is a "witch hunt", as has been mentioned, then what would real oppression be called?

Vitriol was a word other posters had used in the thread, maybe not the best choice of words I could have used, sure. Why are you asking me about oppression? I'm a Libertarian remember. I try not to take people too seriously, especially on the internet.

[Street Pharmacist]

Originally Posted by FlamesFanInEdmonton

I'm all for the Flames participating in any community event. Maybe I'm a little old school or something but to be honest I don't understand these parades...admittedly perhaps that's because I'm not gay. For the record, I don't care what someone's sexual orientation is. I'm all for the freedom to be who you want to be in this world as long as it doesn't hurt other people. I guess my thinking is, in holding a parade like this is it not accomplishing the exact opposite of what the parade is for? It's almost like trying to segregate yourself from the rest of the community. To me it says "hey look at us...we're different"...when I think the message should be you're not different at all. There is nothing abnormal about it. Your gay. I'm straight. So what? We are all still people.

For marginalized groups, solidarity and community displays reinforces their sense of belonging.

It's still not "normal" to be gay in lots of places. At least not yet

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by dino7c

I know a openly gay man that hates the pride parade because of the stereotype's it reinforces with many of the participants outfits ect.

I suppose he is a gay homophobe?

Well he does fit the one point of criteria, previously defined in this thread as solely being homophobic.

[Red Potato Standing By]

Yeah if it was normal there wouldn't be these discussions.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Zethrynn

Yeah if it was normal there wouldn't be these discussions.

Being gay isn't "normal"?

Think you're confusing normalcy with acceptance.