Flames at Pride reaction

[ben voyonsdonc]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

It's not a valid comparison.

If the flames didn't march in any parade it wouldn't change my opinion of the organization. If they stopped doing all the charity work it would.

But you said they should stick to hockey. In that case, would the charity work be something like letting the Oilers win a game or two? Last time I checked, charity work is not done on the ice.

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by the2bears

Doing one doesn't preclude doing the other. In no way does marching in the parade hinder the "pending issue" of the economy.

And, simply put, just because you think it's something to move on from doesn't make it so. Some people say the same about race relations. You don't get to decide when the issue's no longer an issue.

And neither do you.

I could sit here and try to explain the concept of political misdirection to you and the use of divisive issues to clog the public dialogue, but i fear it would be an exercise of futility.

[Roast Beef]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

It's not a valid comparison.

If the flames didn't march in any parade it wouldn't change my opinion of the organization. If they stopped doing all the charity work it would.

[oldschoolcalgary]

I think its great that some of the players are joining the parade.

just because they are hockey players doesn't mean they should not support the causes they believe in.

[ben voyonsdonc]

As an addition to my last post: marching in the Pride Parade is one part of the Flames charitable work. Under Burke, the Flames have made supporting the LGBT community a huge part of their charitable mandate. If they stopped doing it, the LGBT community would be hurt. It may not change your opinion of the Flames but it would change many other peoples' opinion of them.

[the2bears]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

[/B]

And neither do you.

I could sit here and try to explain the concept of political misdirection to you and the use of divisive issues to clog the public dialogue, but i fear it would be an exercise of futility.

Of course not, and I wasn't trying to.

[mesaywee]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

[/B]

And neither do you.

I could sit here and try to explain the concept of political misdirection to you and the use of divisive issues to clog the public dialogue, but i fear it would be an exercise of futility.

Dude give up, any reasonable person reading your arguments are rolling their eyes.

[PepsiFree]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

[/B]



And neither do you.



I could sit here and try to explain the concept of political misdirection to you and the use of divisive issues to clog the public dialogue, but i fear it would be an exercise of futility.

You think the Flames should stick to hockey, but it'd bother you if they stopped doing charity work.

You couldn't care less about this issue, but you've spent more time on this issue in this thread than most other individuals here.

You talk about what you could do, without any intention of doing it.

Your problem seems to be clarity. Keep it simple.

[Kidder]

Thank you to Hells Bells for clarifying your viewpoint.

But please don't gloss over the statistics Ben V presented on GLBT suicide. They are significant.

These are children that need help and a simple act like the Calgary Flames marching in the pride parade does make a difference.

So to posters like Illuminaughty who say they don't really care... But...

That's fine, no need to care, but leave out the "buts."

Cause the Flames are sending out a message of acceptance to kids who need it.

It's also promoting discussion, which leads to conversations like this one, which hopefully breeds further understanding.

Its easy to ignore a parade if it holds no interest to you. Just don't go. It's also easy to ignore a rainbow picture if it's not congruent with your beliefs. Just scroll on by.

But it's not easy to ignore homophobic slurs, disparaging remarks or various forms of harassment that homosexuals have had to endure in our society for high time, especially in the world of sport.

So good on yah Brian Burke and the Calgary Flames!

From a proud Calgarian and Flames fan.

[Camronius]

Originally Posted by mesaywee

Dude give up, any reasonable person reading your arguments are rolling their eyes.

Quite the opposite in fact. Watching a witch hunt occur for simply questioning or having a dissenting opinion is more or less proving their point.

For what it's worth, I support having the flames march in the parade. However I also agree with a lot of what this poster is saying.

My eye rolling occurred from yours and many other poster's responses.

I've witnessed accusations of being a homophobe, to being an ugly white person, to being unreasonable for almost no reason.

[PepsiFree]

All that aside, I think it's great.

Shows support for an issue that impacts many of us in some way or another. Doesn't matter what the issue is or the politics behind it, it's just nice to see the Flames be a part of the community every chance they get.

I never paid much attention to the "where's MY parade" crowd. It's kind of like if a healthy person balked at a Cancer run and said "well where's the run for people WITHOUT Cancer?". No one would be so dumb though

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by ben voyonsdonc

But you said they should stick to hockey. In that case, would the charity work be something like letting the Oilers win a game or two? Last time I checked, charity work is not done on the ice.

I see charity work and marching in a parade as two different things. Yes they both effect the community but in different ways.

So for every rally that goes on in Calgary the flames have to show support for, to give back to the community?

[Illuminaughty]

Originally Posted by Camronius

Quite the opposite in fact. Watching a witch hunt occur for simply questioning or having a dissenting opinion is more or less proving their point.

For what it's worth, I support having the flames march in the parade. However I also agree with a lot of what this poster is saying.

My eye rolling occurred from yours and many other poster's responses.

I've witnessed accusations of being a homophobe, to being an ugly white person, to being unreasonable for almost no reason.

Thank you. I thought a forum was a platform for discussion, if everyone just agrees on everything why bother. If I could go back I wouldn't make my initial point that started this, why open the can worms and deal with the fallout? When I could just acquiesce and hold my thoughts to myself, tough to solve any issues that way though.....

[AcGold]

Originally Posted by The Yen Man

If the Flames participated in a march for cancer or MS awareness, and people tell them to stick to hockey, what type of reactions should those people (deservedly) get from the general public?

Depends what you mean by general public. As a rational person I could see someone's point that they really like the Flames and that the person feels the Flames should focus on practicing and staying in shape so we can win a championship one day.

A thought process based on a love for hockey. Being the "politically correct" society we are in today the vitriol would surely fly as no fake moralist can resist the chance to spew hate, to testify to the world, look at me! look how superior my morals are!! This person does not agree!!!

Without for one second thinking, hey maybe they don't hate people with cancer, maybe they just like hockey to a fault. But then again such a conclusion would require logic.

[Kidder]

Illuminaughty. I went back to reread your original and subsequent posts.

Your original point had some validity. I'll concede the homophobe and bigot label gets tossed around quite liberally and often too soon.

I think the point was a bit of a tangent to the purpose of the thread, and that's what's caused some vitriol to be thrown your way.

I'm not sure if you're homophobic. I certainly wouldnt label you a homophobe based on what you've said to this point in the thread. But I hope you've taken this discussion as an opportunity to learn about why this is important to a faction of our society, and deserves respect.

Studies have shown GLBT youth are 3-4 times as likely to attempt suicide.

Gay posters here have shared that having Flames participate in a parade like this makes a difference to themselves and other members in the community, of which I share and agree.

Therefore if you can acknowledge those two points and agree it might be beneficial that the Flames do participate in this parade, it would likely dispel any wrongful attacks you may feel are directed toward you.

[thefoss1957]

Inclusiveness is in the marketing plan of all well run franchises...so, it is a good business decision for our teams (the Blackhawks have been involved in supporting Chicagoland LBGT groups, much as the Flames have now done in Calgary)...IIRC, Sopel took the Cup to the Pride Parade a couple years ago, and I believe the 'Hawks have taken the Cup and a couple of players to the Parade each time after winning after that

[Kidder]

Yes I don't think there are any real homophobic remarks in this thread, mostly just questions about why challenging/disagreeing with viewpoints of the pro-gay crowd gets one instantly labeled homophobic.

To that I'd pose that the subject of homosexuality is usually quite polarizing. And for those that are truly indifferent, well they usually display that apathy by not joining the discussion at all.

So when someone comes in with an alternative opinion it's taken as an afront, rightly or wrongly.

Just keep in mind actual people are suffering and dying from the hurtful words from those who don't understand and belittle their plight. So hopefully you can forgive when one is short on patience and quick to label.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by AcGold

Depends what you mean by general public. As a rational person I could see someone's point that they really like the Flames and that the person feels the Flames should focus on practicing and staying in shape so we can win a championship one day.

A thought process based on a love for hockey. Being the "politically correct" society we are in today the vitriol would surely fly as no fake moralist can resist the chance to spew hate, to testify to the world, look at me! look how superior my morals are!! This person does not agree!!!

Without for one second thinking, hey maybe they don't hate people with cancer, maybe they just like hockey to a fault. But then again such a conclusion would require logic.

Ok... But it's curious how the "Flames should just stick to playing hockey" posts never seem to appear in threads about Flames players supporting cancer organizations in the city. It's curious indeed.

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

Thank you. I thought a forum was a platform for discussion, if everyone just agrees on everything why bother. If I could go back I wouldn't make my initial point that started this, why open the can worms and deal with the fallout? When I could just acquiesce and hold my thoughts to myself, tough to solve any issues that way though.....

Isn't that precisely what happened? You posted your opinion and a lot of posters disagreed with you. It's not like the moderators banned you for posting against the grain.

And if you're having difficulty defending your position (to the extent that you wish you hadn't posted it at all), perhaps it's time to reconsider your position. In fact, it seems to me that this sort of discourse and process is exactly how society should solve its issues (marketplace of ideas and all that).

[Makarov]

Originally Posted by Illuminaughty

I see charity work and marching in a parade as two different things. Yes they both effect the community but in different ways.

So for every rally that goes on in Calgary the flames have to show support for, to give back to the community?

Or, alternatively, perhaps the Flames could just prioritize supporting the organizations etc that they feel are most important? Like every other person and organization?