Lance Bouma: what sort of contract has he earned?

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Parallex

At which point Management can point out that Raymond was a UFA and had three times the NHL experience that Bouma has and then say "no less then Bollig? Okey I'll gladly sign him to Bollig money".

Or they can say then I guess I wait a year and become a UFA... I can go the Ian White arbitration route and get a 1 year 3M contract that makes me a UFA next year this time.

They Flames would argue that the made a huge mistake paying Raymond 3M x 3.

If Bouma is a UFA and people think that Raymond's contract is the going rate then Bouma would be getting at least 5M , maybe 6 as a UFA this year.


so look at as 2M for his RFA year, 5M for two years of UFA 3 years @ 12M

Overpaying for Raymond as a UFA just plays havoc with your internal salary structure.

At least Wideman @5.2 and Hudler at 4 had a reasonable expectation of being a #1/2 D-man top 3 forward.... which they have done.

Bouma should get a 3-4 year deal at somewhere around 3M.....based on Gio and Brodie Not Jones and Raymond.

Bouma is the reason teh Flames were able to move Glencross.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Did I just read that Bouma would get 5-6m if he was a UFA this year?

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Or they can say then I guess I wait a year and become a UFA... I can go the Ian White arbitration route and get a 1 year 3M contract that makes me a UFA next year this time.

They Flames would argue that the made a huge mistake paying Raymond 3M x 3.

If Bouma is a UFA and people think that Raymond's contract is the going rate then Bouma would be getting at least 5M , maybe 6 as a UFA this year.


so look at as 2M for his RFA year, 5M for two years of UFA 3 years @ 12M

Overpaying for Raymond as a UFA just plays havoc with your internal salary structure.

At least Wideman @5.2 and Hudler at 4 had a reasonable expectation of being a #1/2 D-man top 3 forward.... which they have done.

Bouma should get a 3-4 year deal at somewhere around 3M.....based on Gio and Brodie Not Jones and Raymond.

Bouma is the reason teh Flames were able to move Glencross.

Just stop.

You don't take what you believe is the worst value contract on your team and then extrapolate upwards from there for every other player.

GMs aren't idiots.

[Robbob]

I thinking going up to 3 million may be a bit much. I could see a structure like 1.5, 2.0, 2.5. Maybe bump that last year to 3 as it is a UFA year. You have to be careful putting a lot of money for a bottom six player. That is why I don't think he will get much more north of 3million. For the record, I do think his goal totals are an anomaly. Albeit a good one this season.

[Buster]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Just stop.

You don't take what you believe is the worst value contract on your team and then extrapolate upwards from there for every other player.

GMs aren't idiots.

GM's aren't idiots. But you only need one.

(And no, I don't think Bouma would get 5mm)

[Gaudfather]

I dunno the number, but Boums unrecorded assist on the Diaz goal last night just adds to his value!

[GioforPM]

Originally Posted by ricardodw

Or they can say then I guess I wait a year and become a UFA... I can go the Ian White arbitration route and get a 1 year 3M contract that makes me a UFA next year this time.

They Flames would argue that the made a huge mistake paying Raymond 3M x 3.

If Bouma is a UFA and people think that Raymond's contract is the going rate then Bouma would be getting at least 5M , maybe 6 as a UFA this year.


so look at as 2M for his RFA year, 5M for two years of UFA 3 years @ 12M

Overpaying for Raymond as a UFA just plays havoc with your internal salary structure.

At least Wideman @5.2 and Hudler at 4 had a reasonable expectation of being a #1/2 D-man top 3 forward.... which they have done.

Bouma should get a 3-4 year deal at somewhere around 3M.....based on Gio and Brodie Not Jones and Raymond.

Bouma is the reason teh Flames were able to move Glencross.

No, no, no.

First, you don't base a contract for a Bouma after one good year on Gio's.

Second, you don't give a UFA with 16 goals once in his career $5M. Based on anyone.

Third, Glencross' UFA status, age and demands were why they moved Glencross. Not because of Bouma.

Fourth, Raymond's contract was not a mistake. He's on a 20 goal pace, same as most of his recent career, which gets you $3M as a UFA. Yeah, he's streaky, but so are lots of scorers (like Glencross, who will get more).

Bouma would not get $3M in arbitration, because arbitrators don't look at just one year's production.

[ricardodw]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Just stop.

You don't take what you believe is the worst value contract on your team and then extrapolate upwards from there for every other player.

GMs aren't idiots.

I agree and think that signing Raymond to a large contract was a really bad move that sends a wrong signal as to what Flames management are willing to pay a secondary support player.

There are a lot of folks on CP that said over and over again that Raymond is living up to his contract... He is what you get for 3.15 M in todays NHL. These are a selection of quotes from last week on the mason Raymond thread.

Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814

Raymond is a 28 year old UFA 20 goal scorer. He's on pace for 20.5 goals over 82 games. It's rare you get exactly what you're expecting from a UFA signing - Mason Raymond is who we thought he was. And there's nothing wrong with that.

He'll be replaced in a year or two and relegated to a 4th line 13th forward role in the last year of his deal before he's traded at the deadline as the roster player throw-in when we acquire our rental defenseman.

Originally Posted by Red John

On top of that, Raymond does have an offensive history with a 50-point season under his belt and is a streaky guy who could literally prop the Flames up offensively with one of his hot streaks at the right time. All it takes is 3-4 hot games and his offense could win you a playoff series when the rest of the team might be shut down or gone cold.

$3 million a year is basically the equivalent of like $1.7 million at the start of the salary cap era so you really aren't being hampered by the contract. It's like 3% of the team cap which is pretty reasonable for a 3rd line guy who can skate, forecheck, create chances with speed and move up to the 2nd line during a hot streak and get his points.

Originally Posted by jammies

$3 million is average NHL money. I don't like Raymond's game much, but that's pretty much what you're going to pay any veteran who isn't a career 4th liner, which he's not. Complain about him taking up a roster spot if you must, but his contract is nothing that is going to prevent the Flames from signing whatever talent they want going forward, so it's pretty well irrelevant.

The same thing applies to people that complain about Stajan's contract. $3 million is average money. Nothing special, nothing that needs to be agonized over. Average and ultimately irrelevant.

Originally Posted by Fire of the Phoenix

A capable 3rd line player (what Raymond has been most of his career) costs 2.5m to 4.5m. No matter how many numbers you want add, subtract, or multiply by pi divided by 16.7... that's just what it is. Look around the league to see what other teams are paying their middle 6 guys that are late 20s, proven and are not reclamation projects.

Originally Posted by sureLoss

The easiest way to do it is $68.1 million salary cap / 23 roster posts = $2.96 million cap hit on average per roster spot.

Originally Posted by GioforPM

I don't think signing a 29 year old 20 goal scorer to a $3M contract is a panic move.

UFAs cost money. What other UFAs were signed at that time who would have been a better deal (barring surprises like if someone signed a Bouma to a small deal and he scored like he's doing)? I bet there were a bunch of teams at the same price point on Raymond and he signed here for opportunity and location.

[GioforPM]

Those are all valid points. But not to be extrapolated into a comparison with RFA contracts. Negotiators and arbotrators use comparables, so they will be asking what players around Bouma's age, RFA status and ability are making.

He will get credit if he goes into UFA years while signing when he's an RFA. But not as much as a pure UFA. And if he only signs a 1 year or so, he's taking a risk his value drops.