[PGT] Flames lose 4-3 to Penguins

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by moon

I look at the Oilers and see a bunch of David Jones.

A bunch of guys that do absolutely nothing out there to help their team win.

Tanguay was overpaid, because of the ridiculous contract some idiot gave him, and a malcontent but at least he brought something to the game.

Jones adds 0 to this team. He isn't tough, isn't skilled, isn't responsible defensively, doesn't hit. Throw in his horrible deal and he is a real waste of a roster spot.

Keeping Tanguay was a bad idea. Trading him for two stiffs that likely shouldn't be in the league and giving up Sarich as well was a much worse idea.

Now you're just making crap up. The Oilers are a lot closer to a team of Tanguays than a team of DJoneses

[EYE_Overstand]

Jones is on pace for 20 Goals. 20 Assists. Unfortunately he scores inconsistently and has been injury prone for so many seasons.

I do agree that the return for the flames for tangs was meh. Sarich for SOB is fine. Sarich is playing on a team that scores tons of goals so his stats are misleading.

[$ven27]

^ He's on pace for 15 goals & assists.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Now you're just making crap up. The Oilers are a lot closer to a team of Tanguays than a team of DJoneses

Top 6 closer to Tanguay (although not really a great comparison), bottom 6 and defense closer to Jones.

The bottom 6 and defense of the Oilers problem is that they have 0 talent and don't bring anything to the team at all, much like David Jones for the Flames.

The Oilers top players problem isn't that they sulk like a Tanguay it is that they don't understand how to play the game properly.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by moon

Top 6 closer to Tanguay (although not really a great comparison), bottom 6 and defense closer to Jones.

The bottom 6 and defense of the Oilers problem is that they have 0 talent and don't bring anything to the team at all, much like David Jones for the Flames.

The Oilers top players problem isn't that they sulk like a Tanguay it is that they don't understand how to play the game properly.

Except he leads the team in hits and is top 10 in blocked shots. He is absolutely an NHLer, albeit not one worth 4 mil, but certainly as good if not better all-around than Tanguay.

If you don't watch the Flames play, don't pretend like you do.

[moon]

Originally Posted by strombad

Except he leads the team in hits and is top 10 in blocked shots. He is absolutely an NHLer, albeit not one worth 4 mil, but certainly as good if not better all-around than Tanguay.

Hits are a garbage stat based on how they are "counted" and blocked shots often don't tell you much about a player either. Chris Butler is top 10 in NHL for blocked shots and he is garbage.

If that is the best defense for David Jones then pretty clear even his defenders don't have much.

If you don't watch the Flames play, don't pretend like you do.

What does a garbage line like this do to help the discussion in this thread?

If you are dumb enough to think that I don't watch games then I am not sure what point there is in continuing.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by moon

Hits are a garbage stat based on how they are "counted" and blocked shots often don't tell you much about a player either. Chris Butler is top 10 in NHL for blocked shots and he is garbage.

If that is the best defense for David Jones then pretty clear even his defenders don't have much.



What does a garbage line like this do to help the discussion in this thread?

If you are dumb enough to think that I don't watch games then I am not sure what point there is in continuing.

You said he brings "nothing".
I showed you two of the things he brings, completely negating your "nothing" comment.

Chris Butler isn't good, but he blocks shots, so he doesn't bring "nothing". When you say a player is "garbage" you are stating an opinion, when you say a player "brings nothing" you need to be able to prove that, you didn't, so you are wrong. The reason for questioning whether you watch hockey is because to suggest that Jones "brings nothing" infers that you've never actually seen the Flames play a single game this year, nor have you seem Jones play a single game in any year prior, making the accusation that you "don't watch hockey" entirely valid.

David Jones is putting up just under 0.5 PPG, he is in the top 7% for all NHL forwards regarding Blocked Shots, and the top 15% for hits. Whether you think hits are recorded poorly or not, he still leads the team, and the recording differences between clubs does not hold any water when you are comparing players on the same club.

David Jones contributes, not a lot, and not worth a 4 million dollar salary. But if you're going to continue suggesting he "brings nothing" and then become upset when someone calls you out on your inability to obtain information from watching hockey, then yes, there really is no point for you to continue this conversation. Go enjoy your evening elsewhere.

It's a bit rich to question what a certain comment brings to a thread while calling another poster "dumb". Perhaps leave the insults for the children's section of CP.

[moon]

Originally Posted by strombad

You said he brings "nothing".
I showed you two of the things he brings, completely negating your "nothing" comment.

For me being 10th on the team in blocked shots isn't adding anything and leading a soft team in a bogus stats like hits doesn't add anything either.

I have watched the games this year and Jones isn't close to being one of the more physical players or a guy that hits a lot. He softly rubs up against guys as they skate past him or take the puck away but doesn't hit.

Chris Butler isn't good, but he blocks shots, so he doesn't bring "nothing". When you say a player is "garbage" you are stating an opinion, when you say a player "brings nothing" you need to be able to prove that, you didn't, so you are wrong.

If as you say it is an opinion then I don't have to prove it at all. In my view what Jones "brings" amounts to nothing. It doesn't improve the team, it doesn't help them win games, it does not make them better when he is on the ice.

The reason for questioning whether you watch hockey is because to suggest that Jones "brings nothing" infers that you've never actually seen the Flames play a single game this year, nor have you seem Jones play a single game in any year prior, making the accusation that you "don't watch hockey" entirely valid.

It doesn't imply that at all. It implies that I don't value what Jones supposedly brings as much as you do.

David Jones is putting up just under 0.5 PPG, he is in the top 7% for all NHL forwards regarding Blocked Shots, and the top 15% for hits. Whether you think hits are recorded poorly or not, he still leads the team, and the recording differences between clubs does not hold any water when you are comparing players on the same club.

The recording does matter if they are giving out hits for guys lightly touching guys as often or more often than real hits that actually do something.

Just under .5 is .375 which is a pretty big difference. His current pace has him at a whopping 15 goals and 15 assists. That is not a good or productive season.

Most of the Flames, NYI and Nashville guys are near the top of BS. Does that mean they have all the productive players or that crappy teams give up a ton of shots and some will hit the opposition?

David Jones contributes, not a lot, and not worth a 4 million dollar salary. But if you're going to continue suggesting he "brings nothing" and then become upset when someone calls you out on your inability to obtain information from watching hockey, then yes, there really is no point for you to continue this conversation. Go enjoy your evening elsewhere.

David Jones contributes at best at a replacement level guy i.e. we bring in the next guy on waivers the team remains the same with that guy as they are with Jones. That to me is bringing nothing to the team.

I am not upset and disagreed with your statement that I don't watch the Flames. That has nothing to do with what you are stating now about some BS obtaining information from watching hockey.

I am free to enjoy my evening wherever I please. Not for you to tell where I can or cannot post.

It's a bit rich to question what a certain comment brings to a thread while calling another poster "dumb". Perhaps leave the insults for the children's section of CP.

Didn't call you dumb actually unless you truly belief that I don't watch the games.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by moon

For me being 10th on the team in blocked shots isn't adding anything and leading a soft team in a bogus stats like hits doesn't add anything either.

I have watched the games this year and Jones isn't close to being one of the more physical players or a guy that hits a lot. He softly rubs up against guys as they skate past him or take the puck away but doesn't hit.



If as you say it is an opinion then I don't have to prove it at all. In my view what Jones "brings" amounts to nothing. It doesn't improve the team, it doesn't help them win games, it does not make them better when he is on the ice.



It doesn't imply that at all. It implies that I don't value what Jones supposedly brings as much as you do.



The recording does matter if they are giving out hits for guys lightly touching guys as often or more often than real hits that actually do something.

Just under .5 is .375 which is a pretty big difference. His current pace has him at a whopping 15 goals and 15 assists. That is not a good or productive season.

Most of the Flames, NYI and Nashville guys are near the top of BS. Does that mean they have all the productive players or that crappy teams give up a ton of shots and some will hit the opposition?



David Jones contributes at best at a replacement level guy i.e. we bring in the next guy on waivers the team remains the same with that guy as they are with Jones. That to me is bringing nothing to the team.

I am not upset and disagreed with your statement that I don't watch the Flames. That has nothing to do with what you are stating now about some BS obtaining information from watching hockey.

I am free to enjoy my evening wherever I please. Not for you to tell where I can or cannot post.



Didn't call you dumb actually unless you truly belief that I don't watch the games.

I truly "belief" you don't watch the games.

What a player brings isn't dependant on opinion, it's based on factual evidence. That goes against your "opinion". If you want to state an opinion, state it. You have a reputation for stating your opinion as though it's a fact, and I don't believe you'll stop doing that (nor do I think you should, free country and all, do your thing) but in this case: your opinion is wrong.

That's a fact, it's not my opinion, you're just wrong. You can hold the opinion that the world is flat, but when people bring you facts and figures you're going to look silly. Just because you don't value something really has no bearing on actual facts and evidence. Keep up the effort though.

[moon]

You think that what a player brings to the game doesn't vary wildly by opinion? You think it is fact.

Well then no need for GM's just go by the facts then since it is that easy. Why waste money on hockey Canada when we can just use the facts to pick the team.

When people bring "facts and figures" that I don't value then they don't mean much. Hits and Blocked Shots do absolutely nothing to tell us about how well a guy plays or whether a guy is helping the team. They can be used with other more definitive stats or opinions but on their own they do nothing.

I "state my opinion as fact" as often as every other poster on this board and others. No more, no less. That is what these boards are for for the most part fans expressing their opinions.

Not sure what the world in flat argument has to do with anything since a. you have done nothing close to bringing in any relevant facts or figures and b. that is something that can be proven, David Jones bringing nothing to the team is a matter of opinion.

[Heavy Jack]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

Now you're just making crap up. The Oilers are a lot closer to a team of Tanguays than a team of DJoneses

Both of you are way off, they have like 7 Giordano's up there.

[strombad]

Originally Posted by moon

You think that what a player brings to the game doesn't vary wildly by opinion? You think it is fact.

Well then no need for GM's just go by the facts then since it is that easy. Why waste money on hockey Canada when we can just use the facts to pick the team.

When people bring "facts and figures" that I don't value then they don't mean much. Hits and Blocked Shots do absolutely nothing to tell us about how well a guy plays or whether a guy is helping the team. They can be used with other more definitive stats or opinions but on their own they do nothing.

I "state my opinion as fact" as often as every other poster on this board and others. No more, no less. That is what these boards are for for the most part fans expressing their opinions.

Not sure what the world in flat argument has to do with anything since a. you have done nothing close to bringing in any relevant facts or figures and b. that is something that can be proven, David Jones bringing nothing to the team is a matter of opinion.