Salvation: Are You Ready?

[J pold]

Originally Posted by Scoreface

"For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, '"He catches the wise in their own craftiness.' ; and again, ' the Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile.'" (1 Cor 3:19-20)

What is so foolish/silly about what I've said? If even one believes, there is much rejoicing in Heaven.

Build your house on the solid rock instead of the sinking sand and you too will have much reason to rejoice.

Sounds to me like god doesn't want us humans to think critically, to purse knowledge and truth, to become wise. He'd rather us just not ask to many questions and accept his disgusting offer of human sacrifice. Sounds to me like all the hallmarks of a cult leader, and dictator.

Also I'd like to point out the irony in the final sentence of your post. Far from me to suggest that I have all the answers, or that my morals and beliefs are a foundation of bedrock, but at the end of the day I'll trust the guys in lab-coats who don't make me get up early on Sundays and apologize for being a human being.

[driveway]

The Bible says a lot of things, and not very clearly.
SPACEFILLERGOINGTOMAKEALLOFTHISTEXTWHITE!!!! - Bender Bending Rodriguez

[RougeUnderoos]

Originally Posted by Scoreface

If I'm not going to fall back on the Bible, what should I fall back on?

That's your business, but if you are looking to guide us to eternal salvation, you should fall back on something else, because this angle never works.

Despite all the cryptic old-time talk and references to ancient parables, what everyone else hears you saying is "the bible is true, because it says it's true in the bible, because the bible is true, because it says so".

Or to put it another way "I don't believe what you say, because what you say is something I don't believe, because what I say is that what you say is unbelievable".

Have I convinced you that I'm right? I didn't think so.

Originally Posted by Scoreface

Those nails, remember, weren't what held Jesus to the cross. It was His Love for YOU.

Again with the condescending tone.

No, I don't remember, but I haven't forgotten the story. I just don't believe it.

You'll have to convince people the story is true without just saying the story is true.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Rockin' Flames

Just because you think this "stuff" is garbage doesn't mean it is. You refer to this as a joke but I'm on board with Scoreface that this is not joke and no laughing matter. You don't believe it but we both do believe it really is your eternal salvation at stake.

I would willingly be mocked by you and a lot of others if it resulted in another person actually coming to know Jesus and being saved.

A good way to think about it was put to words by a christian musician

"What if you're right?
And he was just another nice guy
What if you're right?
What if it's true?
They say the cross will only make a fool of you
And what if it's true?

But what if you're wrong?
What if there's more?
What if there's hope you never dreamed of hoping for?"

I'm not trying to mock you but I would rather not live my life via Pascal's Wager (that's what that song really is) because there is a real price to be paid. The price is my peace of mind and my convictions. I am not arrogant enough to say that I know there is no god. I am no atheist.

But like Photon said, I'd rather live my life by things that honestly come by as a result of honest inquiry and thought than by some wager of gambling on there being a god who is unjust by all rational standards. When I was a Christian, I always knew deep down that it made no sense to me. I spent every spare moment researching history and religion and the Bible because none of it added up. It always felt wrong.

While I fully understand that faith may bring you peace and serenity, it only brought me doubts and frustrations because none of it made sense to me if I actually stopped to think about it. The freedom and catharsis of realizing it was all a lie, was beautiful and brilliant.

[Scoreface]

Originally Posted by J pold

Sounds to me like god doesn't want us humans to think critically, to purse knowledge and truth, to become wise. He'd rather us just not ask to many questions and accept his disgusting offer of human sacrifice. Sounds to me like all the hallmarks of a cult leader, and dictator.

Also I'd like to point out the irony in the final sentence of your post. Far from me to suggest that I have all the answers, or that my morals and beliefs are a foundation of bedrock, but at the end of the day I'll trust the guys in lab-coats who don't make me get up early on Sundays and apologize for being a human being.

Do our troops' sacrifice both present and past for your freedom disgust you as well? Think of their sacrifices and Christ's both affecting generations, however Christ's is eternal. For your sake.

[moon]

Originally Posted by Scoreface

Do our troops' sacrifice both present and past for your freedom disgust you as well? Think of their sacrifices and Christ's both affecting generations, however Christ's is eternal. For your sake.

You are hoping to convince people of your religion and "salvation" by comparing soldiers dying for their country with some made-up story?

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by J pold

Sounds to me like god doesn't want us humans to think critically, to purse knowledge and truth, to become wise. He'd rather us just not ask to many questions and accept his disgusting offer of human sacrifice.

Well duh, you'd think. That's why eating the fruit of the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil condemned us all with original sin.

BTW, wasn't that Satan who is responsible? Why do we pay the price? Why does Jesus pay the price?

When your kid (who is innocent and knows very little because he was just freshly created and doesn't know what good and evil is) takes candy from a stranger who entices him in order to lure him into a van... Do you beat up your kid (and your kid's kids and so forth)? Or do you beat up the stranger?

[J pold]

Originally Posted by Scoreface

Do our troops' sacrifice both present and past for your freedom disgust you as well? Think of their sacrifices and Christ's both affecting generations, however Christ's is eternal. For your sake.

No. The sacrifice of Canadian troops, while extremely tragic and at times unnecessary, is honorable and courageous. However, those deaths don't allow me to absolve myself from sin, they don't tell me that I will be wiped clean, the don't take away my personal responsibility, the don't implicate me to believe in anything, or threaten me with eternal damnation if I don't. And if they did any of that, those deaths would be in vain and for an immoral cause, much like an eccentric preacher two thousand years ago.

[Hack&Lube]

Originally Posted by Scoreface

Do our troops' sacrifice both present and past for your freedom disgust you as well? Think of their sacrifices and Christ's both affecting generations, however Christ's is eternal. For your sake.

This is the other thing I could never understand.

How is the death of our soldiers any less worthwhile than Christ's death? Christ got to be resurrected after 3 days and sits again at the right hand of God. Millions of people have died in much more excruciating (pardon the pun - the word comes from crucfix) ways and their lives were over forever. Their deaths do not absolve me of my actions and my responsibilities. Yes there is a sense of indebtedness to that, but we all owe something to our future generations as well.

Millions of people have given their lives in the past so our generations might live in a brighter future, in a free world. How is their sacrifice not more worthy? What makes the crucifixion so special that it must be so revered when millions of human beings have suffered even worse fates?

[Scoreface]

People with a sinful nature (which all of us have) die everyday for a good cause. I've never condemned them saying they've died in vain. The Bible clearly says that all Scripture is God breathed. Jesus Christ was born of a virgin by the Holy Spirit and thus never inherited the sinful nature of man. He was conceived of the Holy Ghost. God had to do it this way in order for a perfect sacrifice to be made for humanity. While our faithful and courageous soldiers that represent us served in such manner and many dying to do so, they still were not a 'perfect' representative to offer before God for eternal sanctification. Yet they are always worthy of our honour and remembrance for their sacrifice.

We as believers believe we are eternally sanctified by the spotless blood of the Lamb. This is in God's eyes and rings very true to our spirit. However, we still err and are prone to sin, but the overcoming power is still through faith in the ever cleansing blood of Jesus to purify us from a guilty conscience and one that doesn't cover itself up in self-righteousness. We always run to Him. He was the Lamb led to the slaughter so willingly, which gives me much reason to love Him. However, I do not focus on my love for Him which waivers, but on His love for me, which never waivers.

"...we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." (2 Cor 4:18)

"He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but he who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in him." (John 7:18)

[ResAlien]

But rape's cool, right?

(Numbers 31:7-18)
They attacked Midian just as the LORD had commanded Moses, and they killed all the men. All five of the Midianite kings – Evi, Rekem, Zur, Hur, and Reba – died in the battle. They also killed Balaam son of Beor with the sword. Then the Israelite army captured the Midianite women and children and seized their cattle and flocks and all their wealth as plunder. They burned all the towns and villages where the Midianites had lived. After they had gathered the plunder and captives, both people and animals, they brought them all to Moses and Eleazar the priest, and to the whole community of Israel, which was camped on the plains of Moab beside the Jordan River, across from Jericho.

Moses, Eleazar the priest, and all the leaders of the people went to meet them outside the camp. But Moses was furious with all the military commanders who had returned from the battle. "Why have you let all the women live?" he demanded. "These are the very ones who followed Balaam's advice and caused the people of Israel to rebel against the LORD at Mount Peor. They are the ones who caused the plague to strike the LORD's people. Now kill all the boys and all the women who have slept with a man. Only the young girls who are virgins may live; you may keep them for yourselves.


Niiiiiice.

[Hack&Lube]

Also, if you suffer an unfortunate accident to your privates, you can't enter heaven...or is that can't worship in the temple?

"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD." Deuteronomy 23:1

But that's just old testament days. Jesus came to fulfill that law, not abolish it (or so they used to say). Still not sure what that means.

[THE SCUD]

All the hookers and blow you could have been doing, scoreface.... Man you are going to regret how you lived your life

[Gozer]

Originally Posted by Scoreface

We always run to Him. He was the Lamb led to the slaughter so willingly, which gives me much reason to love Him. However, I do not focus on my love for Him which waivers, but on His love for me, which never waivers.

Sometimes another religion picks up a convert on waivers.

[macker]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KotlCEGNbh8 Likely been posted....but Salvation is free

[Scoreface]

Originally Posted by Hack&Lube

Also, if you suffer an unfortunate accident to your privates, you can't enter heaven...or is that can't worship in the temple?

"He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD." Deuteronomy 23:1

But that's just old testament days. Jesus came to fulfill that law, not abolish it (or so they used to say). Still not sure what that means.

The purification (ceremonial) laws of God are true, just and holy. There is no allowance for unholiness/uncleanliness. However, in Paul's letter to the Ephesian church (Eph 2:13) states, "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the Blood of Christ."

This all after the 'by grace are you saved' passage just ahead of it. Is this shizophrenia? Has God lost His marbles? Of course not! All have been made clean in the blood of Christ, those that believe in Him acknowledge thus and are saved. The cross of Jesus Christ is the difference!

[PIMking]

well if "Jesus" walks in front of me Saturday night I will convert right there in front of him as my savior then he will take me to heaven so I'm gravy either way. The fiance is gone for the week to her sisters in South Dakota so it's a lot of beer, hockey, steak, chips, and lounging for me.

[Savvy27]

Originally Posted by Scoreface

We as believers believe we are eternally sanctified by the spotless blood of the Lamb. This is in God's eyes and rings very true to our spirit. However, we still err and are prone to sin, but the overcoming power is still through faith in the ever cleansing blood of Jesus to purify us from a guilty conscience and one that doesn't cover itself up in self-righteousness. We always run to Him. He was the Lamb led to the slaughter so willingly, which gives me much reason to love Him. However, I do not focus on my love for Him which waivers, but on His love for me, which never waivers.

Unless, of course, your love for him waivers at an inconvenient moment and you die... then his love will waiver eternally as you suffer perpetual torment while the flames of hell burn your ghost skin.

"...we do not look at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen. For the things which are seen are temporary, but the things which are not seen are eternal." (2 Cor 4:18)

That's bs... people of faith from the cloth to the pews go bananas for "seen" things. Statues crying tears of blood, images in grilled cheese sandwiches, a relative who has improbably recovered from a terminal illness, etc. It is only when there is a lack of "evidence" of god's work in their lives that people of faith fall back on their primary interest in the unseen.

"He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but he who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in him." (John 7:18)

First question: What would be missing from the bible if it were written by men with no inspiration or involvement of a higher power whatsoever? I only ask because the bible seems (to me) to be obviously written by a bunch of imperfect men.

Second question: Is "speaks from himself" supposed to be "speaks for himself"?

Last question: Assuming that 'speaks from himself' means speaks his or her own ideas, if the individual imitates the behaviour of Jesus, are they still lacking righteousness? Shouldn't there be half-marks or something for recognizing the godliness of Jesus's actions? (Ok... that was two questions)

I know that I'm not going to change your mind, or even convince you to critically examine the possibility that you have been duped, but I honestly think that your beliefs about the way in which the universe operates with invisible actors like satan and angels along with a god that is geographically, as well as chronologically, discriminatory are preposterous. I don't say that to hurt you in any way -I hope you have an enjoyable, meaningful life- but you invited responses and that's mine.

As for the question of deathbed regrets, I like Henry David Thoreau's response to the query of whether he had made his peace with god... "I was not aware we had quarreled."

[flylock shox]

Originally Posted by Scoreface

The purification (ceremonial) laws of God are true, just and holy. There is no allowance for unholiness/uncleanliness. However, in Paul's letter to the Ephesian church (Eph 2:13) states, "But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the Blood of Christ."

This all after the 'by grace are you saved' passage just ahead of it. Is this shizophrenia? Has God lost His marbles? Of course not! All have been made clean in the blood of Christ, those that believe in Him acknowledge thus and are saved. The cross of Jesus Christ is the difference!

Man...

With all due respect for your sincerely held beliefs, your reasoning sounds like a Christian version of Tower's nonsensical ramblings.

I mean... it's not very logical really...

[Yasa]

I call Poe.