5 yr old w/ gun incident at Houston school

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

Ive already said it in this thread, but ill say it again.

Guns dont kill people. People kill people.

Or as a comedian once said, Guns don't kill people, bullets moving really really fast kill people.

[HOOT]

Originally Posted by transplant99

It your right to own a gun in Canada as well if you so choose.

It's not a right, or I wouldn't have to get a permit/license for it.

Do you know how many registered guns there are in Texas?

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by PIMking

Violence is Violence no matter how you try to spin it.

No.

There are actually quite different levels of violence. Punching someone does not equal raping someone does not equal stabbing someone does not equal shooting someone. These things are all different. Your post is trying to equate them. That is too simplistic.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

You say its safer for YOU.
Dont speak for people that actually own guns and have used them before.

I fail to see how bear spray would be more effective then a gun for someone that owns and has used a gun before.

A) Lets say you miss with the bear spray, you're going to likely get shot at now.
B) Even if hit the intruder with the bear spray, you essentially need to hit him in the face, even if you do, it may not be good enough to stop him. (With a gun theres a much bigger target area for you to hit/stop the intruder.
C) The guy has a gun, you have bear spray, more times then not the gun will win.

I don't know Beer

I volunteered to be shot in the face with bear spray and I don't care who you are, the last thing on your mind after getting a blast in your face is carrying on an attack. All I know is that it was incredibly blinding pain, and I had trouble breathing because its somewhat persistant.

Even if you don't hit the person, there is a really unpleasant stinging sensation.

The distribution works different, as long as you press the dispenser button your streaming that stuff out, unlike a gun where you have to aim and shoot and aim and shoot. With Bear Spray you squeeze down on the button or trigger and you area attack.

One thing that I do remember is when I was hit with the bear spray, and I was suppossed to attack the guy, I completely forgot what I was doing, and my only instinct was to run in the opposite direction.

[jayswin]

Originally Posted by PIMking

You know for being such a non violent anti gun society Canadians seem to love Hockey fights....

That's a ridiculous comparison and you know it.

[TylerSVT]

I wonder what the percentage of home invasions deal with firearms? Like the actual invaders. I have a feeling most people are not armed, and if they are, its with other weapons such as a knife or bat or something. Not a firearm, at least in Canada.

[Yasa]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

Just like im sure most people who purchase condoms dont plan to blow them into balloons.

Speak for yourself.

I used to live in a world of rainbows...until I shot them out of the sky with my .50 cal! Not so colourful now, are you?

The talk about armed home invaders is funny to me. We assume that these gun-wielding masked men are walking around with their pistols pointed forward, leading them around every corner. I'm not speaking from experience, but I imagine that holding a TV and a gun at the same time, while trying to shoot at your victim is pretty difficult.

Secondly, I'm fairly certain that most home invasions happen during the day while the occupants are at work. Despite obviously a poor lifestyle, not all criminals are that stupid.

Business robberies happen at night, sure, but when are you more likely to get shot? When you comply with the robber and give him the money (I don't care, it's not my money) or when you pull out a gun and become an immediate threat to them?

Another thing. Sometimes I get drunk. I'm not perfect, but nobody is. When Im drunk, I have a habit of coming home late and stumbling around. A few instances when I've knocked tables over on my way to bed. I probably sound like a robber when I'm raiding my own fridge. I'm just glad my roommates don't have guns, an unnerving paranoia of being maliciously robbed and raped, and don't come flying out of their rooms high on adrenaline ready to pump me full of lead.

You want guns? Fine. I don't care, as long as they're locked up and rendered useless by a trigger guard. I also think extensive gun courses should be mandatory and licenses shouldn't be handed out like candy. In addition, conceled weapons should not be allowed at all. Hunting rifles are fine, but .50 calibre sniper rifles are not. Full-auto AR-15's or M4's, AK's should again, not be permited. Just because you're allowed to own a gun, doesn't mean you need to buy the biggest penis extension out there.

Just my opinion though. Carry on.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

Ive already said it in this thread, but ill say it again.

Guns dont kill people. People kill people.

Semantics.

Your first sentence is just blatantly and obviously wrong, guns and bullets do kill people. People are the ones using the gun. A gun is a tool that can be used to hurt an animal/human or kill them.

People love trotting out this statement over and over again but it really doesn't change the reality that guns do in fact kill people. They are one of the more efficient tools we have at our disposal to do that. They operate from distance and can cause lethal damage. This differs from tools like a knife or baseball bat which can also kill people but require close range and often would take multiple stabs/whacks unless wielded by someone particularly skilled at killing/defense. Obviously there are all sorts of things that can kill people, things like cars included. But guns are one of the only things whose main purpose is to hurt or kill a living being. Knives, bats, cars, etc are all primarily not used to hurt/kill animals/humans.

[Traditional_Ale]

[CaptainCrunch]

Either those weapons are new, or those kids are really well trained, those SMG's are spotless.

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by Flames Draft Watcher

Semantics.

Your first sentence is just blatantly and obviously wrong, guns and bullets do kill people. People are the ones using the gun. A gun is a tool that can be used to hurt an animal/human or kill them.

People love trotting out this statement over and over again but it really doesn't change the reality that guns do in fact kill people. They are one of the more efficient tools we have at our disposal to do that. They operate from distance and can cause lethal damage. This differs from tools like a knife or baseball bat which can also kill people but require close range and often would take multiple stabs/whacks unless wielded by someone particularly skilled at killing/defense. Obviously there are all sorts of things that can kill people, things like cars included. But guns are one of the only things whose main purpose is to hurt or kill a living being. Knives, bats, cars, etc are all primarily not used to hurt/kill animals/humans.

So what?

Most legal gun owners in the USA dont buy guns with the intention of killing anyone.

Banning the legal purchase of weapons in Texas for example would do nothing.

Criminals would still have guns.

[transplant99]

Originally Posted by HOOT

It's not a right, or I wouldn't have to get a permit/license for it.

Do you know how many registered guns there are in Texas?

Semantics...you have every right to own a gun IF you get a permit for it...better?

Why would I have any idea how many registered guns are in texas? I wouldn't any idea how many aren't registered either...what's your point?

[transplant99]

Your first sentence is just blatantly and obviously wrong, guns and bullets do kill people. People are the ones using the gun. A gun is a tool that can be used to hurt an animal/human or kill them.

Show me one gun that shoots itself without anyone being part of it, and I will agree with you.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

So what?

Most legal gun owners in the USA dont buy guns with the intention of killing anyone.

Banning the legal purchase of weapons in Texas for example would do nothing.

Criminals would still have guns.

So what? I was merely refuting your incorrect statement. Guns do kill people, it would be foolish to argue otherwise.

I don't propose banning guns and have not in this thread.

If you've read what I've posted in this thread you might come to the conclusion that I don't think guns are a very effective deterrent/defense against robberies and that I don't think being robbed at gunpoint in your home is a very likely event. So unlikely in fact that I wouldn't plan for it, wouldn't go out of my way to defend against it, especially not at the risk that someone accidentally shoots a family member at night or someone steals the gun or takes it to school.

What are people anywhere buying guns for if not to hurt/kill someone or something? Obviously some people use guns for hunting, we're not really talking about that. We're talking about people who buy guns to hurt/kill robbers and rapists for the most part. Which IMO in certain places is no more that paranoia manifesting itself.

[You Need a Thneed]

Originally Posted by Beerfest

All I know is if there was an intruder in my house with a gun, id rather have a gun then bear mace.

I'd rather have the pepper spray, if an intruder with a gun was already in the house. It would be just as effective, unless the intruder is determined to kill, in which case I'm likely to be dead anyway. Plus, it eliminates the chance of gunfire escalating the situation, and there is no risk of stray bullets hitting a family member. Also, there is no risk of my gun being used against me or my family. What percentage of the time do intruders actually have guns? My guess is that it's pretty low, especially in Canada. I'm guessing that they aren't advertising as soon as they come in the door that they have one either - the vast majority of the time you will not know whether they have a gun or not, and they will most likely not. Pepper spray would do the trick just fine.

The other 99,999 days out of 100,000 when there is no intruder in my house, I'd MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have the pepper spray.

Like someone else said, you are mitigating against the very small chance of an armed intruder entering your house, intending to kill you or someone close to you, by introducing something into your house that, by orders of magnitude, is more likely to kill you, or someone close to you. It makes no sense whatsoever.

Having an intruder with a gun intending to rob the place is vastly different than an intruder with a gun intending to kill you. If I KNEW FOR CERTAIN that the intruder was trying to kill me, and was in my house for no other purpose besides that, you are right, I'd rather have a gun.

The chances of having an intruder in my house is small, the chances of that intruder having a gun is smaller yet, the chances that that intruder has any intentions of using the gun, even if provoked, is even smaller yet, and the chance that the intruder is coming in intending to kill me with a gun is so remote that it's not even worth talking about, really. Especially when, if that were to occur, I'd likely be dead whether I had a loaded gun under my pillow or not.

[Flames Draft Watcher]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Show me one gun that shoots itself without anyone being part of it, and I will agree with you.

Semantics. Guns kill people when used by people. This does not mean that guns do not kill people.

Semantic games don't really get us anywhere. Back in the land of obvious reality we all have to agree that guns do kill people, that they are a tool used by people and that people do kill people with guns being one of the most efficient weapons we have at hand to do so.

I find it a little crazy that people still try and stand by the statement that "guns do not kill people". I guess some people have heard it repeated enough that they have let it cloud reality.

"Guns do not kill people" is a quite clearly and obviously false statement. Unless we're not agreeing on the term kill, or insisting that in order to kill one must have the intention of killing and that guns do not have intentions. Either way we are back to semantic games. Taking the statement at its most obvious meaning it is just obviously false.

[Bring_Back_Shantz]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Show me one gun that shoots itself without anyone being part of it, and I will agree with you.

http://www.gizmag.com/korea-dodamm-s...-turret/17198/


Okay, start agreeing.

[transplant99]

Right...so it is people killing people...regardless of the weapon...and that is not semantics at all.

[CaptainCrunch]

Originally Posted by transplant99

Show me one gun that shoots itself without anyone being part of it, and I will agree with you.

I keed I keed

[Beerfest]

Originally Posted by Bring_Back_Shantz

http://www.gizmag.com/korea-dodamm-s...-turret/17198/


Okay, start agreeing.

Created by humans and humans still have the power to control it.