[News] With the 21st overall pick Flames select C Mark Jankowski

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

seriously?

I'll take TT every day of the week 3 years on, its becoming more apparent that calgary took a huge risk on a CDN HS project instead of guys that have been playing regularly in the NHL the past couple of years.

The only one I take over Jankowski is Maatta.

We all knew Jankowski was going to be a project. I still firmly believe that he can be the perfect 3C behind Bennett and Monahan.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by ForeverFlameFan

The only one I take over Jankowski is Maatta.

We all knew Jankowski was going to be a project. I still firmly believe that he can be the perfect 3C behind Bennett and Monahan.

which brings us back to the entire debate surrounding this pick: passing on kids that were more NHL ready for a kid whose upside was deemed greater by those in charge, even though he was a project.

TT is already playing substantial minutes on the Blackhawks. A team just a couple of years out from a stanley cup... he'd look pretty damn good in a Flames uniform as opposed to a kid that hasn't even proven he can play at this level.

[JiriHrdina]

9 points in 34 games.
He could improve, but I actually think TT could end up being similar to Sven - an offensive only player but not a great one - and not great in other areas.
Frankly if we are playing the 20/20 game at this point I would take Laughton over TT - a guy with a far more well rounded game.

[Anduril]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

which brings us back to the entire debate surrounding this pick: passing on kids that were more NHL ready for a kid whose upside was deemed greater by those in charge, even though he was a project.

TT is already playing substantial minutes on the Blackhawks. A team just a couple of years out from a stanley cup... he'd look pretty damn good in a Flames uniform as opposed to a kid that hasn't even proven he can play at this level.

Still doesn't change the fact this is a team who can afford that development time and it'll still be years before we can put any solid verdict on the debate one way or another.

[JohnnySkittles]

In hindsight trading down was a big loss IMO. Girgensons, Ceci, Wilson, Hertl, TT, Vasilevski, Laughton, Maatta. Literally every pick from 14-22 is either a very solid prospect or a solid young player already, except for Jankowski.

Maybe in a few years it'll be different but right now, no.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

In hindsight trading down was a big loss IMO. Girgensons, Ceci, Wilson, Hertl, TT, Vasilevski, Laughton, Maatta. Literally every pick from 14-22 is either a very solid prospect or a solid young player already, except for Jankowski.

Maybe in a few years it'll be different but right now, no.

So, why isn't Jankowski a solid prospect? Why not use 14-30 as your base line to compare first round picks? As a Flyer fan I would say that Laughton hasn't done anything yet and I agree that TT for Chicago is like Sven, not quite elite enough to play in top 6 and not quite solid enough to play in the bottom 6. Maybe TT will develop or maybe he won't but to declare him, Vasilevski and Laughton any better that Jankowski is just cherry picking what a person wants to see. Most of the guys you mentioned, except TT, are 6-10 months older than Jankowski so maybe he will catch up or pass them as development time catches up (as you mentioned in your last sentence)

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

So, why isn't Jankowski a solid prospect? Why not use 14-30 as your base line to compare first round picks? As a Flyer fan I would say that Laughton hasn't done anything yet and I agree that TT for Chicago is like Sven, not quite elite enough to play in top 6 and not quite solid enough to play in the bottom 6. Maybe TT will develop or maybe he won't but to declare him, Vasilevski and Laughton any better that Jankowski is just cherry picking what a person wants to see. Most of the guys you mentioned, except TT, are 6-10 months older than Jankowski so maybe he will catch up or pass them as development time catches up (as you mentioned in your last sentence)

He looks like could be, but right now he's still a question mark on what exactly he will become. I used 14 - 22 because those are all the guys that were chosen while we took Jankowski.
Laughton yes, but TT and espesically Vasilevski are much more valuable then Jankowski right now, they're bluechippers.
Maybe, but it's foolish to not know that at the very least Girgensons, Hertl and Maatta are much better players/prospects then Jankowski at this time.

[GranteedEV]

Originally Posted by squirtle

How do we see him projecting at this rate? I don't watch many of his games, would Colborne be a fair comparable?

I don't see Colborne at all, other than the superficial similarities ( tall lanky pass-first player). Projecting him is not easy but from the eye test, he'll play center full-time in the NHL and be able to handle tough minutes and convert them into positive events. I think it's actually unfair to even say he's only going to be a third liner. Maybe a third liner in the Jordan Staal sense.

I think with Jankowski, filling out his body is the biggest thing. He's gotten about 65% of the way there in 3 years, so he might be playing for the Flames or Heat before season's end at close to his playing weight.

[AcGold]

What are his physical stats now? I have no idea

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

He looks like could be, but right now he's still a question mark on what exactly he will become. I used 14 - 22 because those are all the guys that were chosen while we took Jankowski.
Laughton yes, but TT and espesically Vasilevski are much more valuable then Jankowski right now, they're bluechippers.
Maybe, but it's foolish to not know that at the very least Girgensons, Hertl and Maatta are much better players/prospects then Jankowski at this time.

Boy this is a perfect illustration of 20/20 thinking. If the Flames had taken a goalie in the first round a lot of people on this board would have lost their minds.

As for TT - meh - 9 points in 34 games. Not exactly lighting it up.
Why is he more valuable? Jankowski hasn't even had a chance to show what he can do at the next level.

There were reasons why TT dropped in the draft, one of them being questions around whether or not he could translate his offense to the NHL.
So far he can't.

[Beatle17]

Originally Posted by JohnnySkittles

He looks like could be, but right now he's still a question mark on what exactly he will become. I used 14 - 22 because those are all the guys that were chosen while we took Jankowski.
Laughton yes, but TT and espesically Vasilevski are much more valuable then Jankowski right now, they're bluechippers.
Maybe, but it's foolish to not know that at the very least Girgensons, Hertl and Maatta are much better players/prospects then Jankowski at this time.

According to yourself. Because of their chosen development path (Europe and/or CHL) they have played a few games in the NHL. Neither has really "bluechipper" success. Vasilevski may just go the same route as Jakob Markstrom another "bluechipper" whom hasn't amounted to much yet. Some of the prospects you mentioned have developed well which is great, but to declare that Jankowski isn't a "bluechipper" in his own right probably isn't correct.

There are lots of guys who choose the college route because they developed slower and need more time. People (not aimed at yourself) need to realize that Jankowski physically developed at a slower rate (growth spurt) and it usually takes guys like him to find their strength and coordination 2-3 years after the spurt (i.e., Joe Colbourne). There were lots of good players in Janko's draft year, some have developed already and some haven't.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

which brings us back to the entire debate surrounding this pick: passing on kids that were more NHL ready for a kid whose upside was deemed greater by those in charge, even though he was a project.

TT is already playing substantial minutes on the Blackhawks. A team just a couple of years out from a stanley cup... he'd look pretty damn good in a Flames uniform as opposed to a kid that hasn't even proven he can play at this level.

I just don't get this argument.

The Flames have been rebuilding and are still a couple years away from contending. Who gives a flying frog what the prospects are doing right now?

The thing that matters is: who is going to be the best player when the Flames are actually contending?

TT may become a productive player, or he may be another Sven. Regardless, the Flames aren't desperate for more prospects of that ilk.

Jankowski projects to possibly be the exact perfect 3rd line C for the Flames. If he becomes that, the combination of:

Bennett
Monahan
Jankowski

will be far better than where we'd be with TT. You can build around quality centremen.

I couldn't care less that he isn't in the league right now, making people 'feel better' about their draft picks. I want to build a winner, and that takes patience.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

9 points in 34 games.
He could improve, but I actually think TT could end up being similar to Sven - an offensive only player but not a great one - and not great in other areas.
Frankly if we are playing the 20/20 game at this point I would take Laughton over TT - a guy with a far more well rounded game.

sure, that is possible...

i think Chicago isn't rushing to develop him, and hence not eye popping numbers in year one... but that he was able to crack chicago's roster in the first place is pretty good considering how good that line up is...

it is what it is, but since this thread was bumped, it was interesting going back to how how much vitriol existed - on both sides of the debate.

[JiriHrdina]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

sure, that is possible...

i think Chicago isn't rushing to develop him, and hence not eye popping numbers in year one... but that he was able to crack chicago's roster in the first place is pretty good considering how good that line up is...

it is what it is, but since this thread was bumped, it was interesting going back to how how much vitriol existed - on both sides of the debate.

Sure - but my point is that him just being at the NHL doesn't really prove that he was a better pick than Jankowski when the latter hasn't even had a chance to turn pro.

If he had great numbers I can understand it - but without that - it is a poor proof point.

[Enoch Root]

Originally Posted by squirtle

How do we see him projecting at this rate? I don't watch many of his games, would Colborne be a fair comparable?

I agree with GranteedEV that Colborne isn't really a good comparison, other than size.

IMO, Jankowski is much more like a 6'4" Backlund: smart, defensively sound, two-way guy that has some real offensive flair but doesn't show it often enough to be a top 6 guy. He's a good skater, but not a speed demon.

A 6'4" Backlund who is good on face-offs.

[oldschoolcalgary]

Originally Posted by Enoch Root

I just don't get this argument.

The Flames have been rebuilding and are still a couple years away from contending. Who gives a flying frog what the prospects are doing right now?

The thing that matters is: who is going to be the best player when the Flames are actually contending?

TT may become a productive player, or he may be another Sven. Regardless, the Flames aren't desperate for more prospects of that ilk.

Jankowski projects to possibly be the exact perfect 3rd line C for the Flames. If he becomes that, the combination of:

Bennett
Monahan
Jankowski

will be far better than where we'd be with TT. You can build around quality centremen.

I couldn't care less that he isn't in the league right now, making people 'feel better' about their draft picks. I want to build a winner, and that takes patience.

and yet people are wildly excited, and rightly so, about how quickly guys like Monahan, guadreau and Bennett have been able to step right into the league and contribute to a rebuilding squad.

Making them "feel better"? Nah, trying to project prospects into NHL'ers is part of what fans do... and comparing picks or assessing trades or thinking about who to sign and who not to sign is all part of that speculation.

[MrMastodonFarm]

Originally Posted by Vulcan

Other than his good face off stats he hasn't shown anything comparable to Colborne yet. His NCAA tournament games were good and if he can show a more consistent physical game, we may have a player.

Size and potential third line role is more what I was speaking to. Not exactly a far flung comparison, it's been thrown around a lot. I think EE was the first to mention it a couple years back.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by oldschoolcalgary

which brings us back to the entire debate surrounding this pick: passing on kids that were more NHL ready for a kid whose upside was deemed greater by those in charge, even though he was a project.

Holy hindsight Batman! What NHL ready kids did the Flames pass on? You don't get NHL ready kids at the 14th pick, and if you do, that is a massive fluke. Most teams that play their 14th pick the following year are pushing their prospects and probably not doing them favors long term. What players did the Flames pass on and just how badly are they teaming up the NHL? I don't see anyone outside of Hertl and Maatta that has really impressed all that much after the Flames original spot at 14. Both are good young talents, but they are still finding their way in the NHL as way, and those are two kids that have NHL size in their favor. Also, do you honestly think it was in the cards for the Flames to have a couple young kids step into an environment that looked like it could be a few years of endless losing? I don't think they saw anyone available in the draft as being a player that should play in the NHL for the Calgary Flames.

What you appear to be missing, or have completely forgot, is the Flames were drafting for need, long term. Unless you're Edmonton, you don't draft for what kid is going to step in and help your squad that fall. You think about what is going to help your team become successful in the long term. The Flames saw a center with size and skill, something they have been lacking for two decades. They went with that kid, recognizing that he was going to take some time to bake and, with any luck, would turn into a NHL player. They appear to be right on track in that regard.

TT is already playing substantial minutes on the Blackhawks. A team just a couple of years out from a stanley cup... he'd look pretty damn good in a Flames uniform as opposed to a kid that hasn't even proven he can play at this level.

And when you say substantial minutes for the Blackhawks you mean the player with the 17th most ice time per game in these playoffs. That is the equivalent of Josh Jooris to the Flames in these playoffs. I think you're trying to find data that supports your hypothesis, but that data just isn't there. Teravainen will probably find a place with the Hawks for the foreseeable future, but it probably isn't on his amazing talent and ability to produce and is more likely because they are in cap hell and need all the players they can get on entry level contracts. Like Jiri said, Teravainen is putting up a Baertschi like performance. We'll see how long that works for the Hawks.

[JohnnySkittles]

Originally Posted by Beatle17

According to yourself. Because of their chosen development path (Europe and/or CHL) they have played a few games in the NHL. Neither has really "bluechipper" success. Vasilevski may just go the same route as Jakob Markstrom another "bluechipper" whom hasn't amounted to much yet. Some of the prospects you mentioned have developed well which is great, but to declare that Jankowski isn't a "bluechipper" in his own right probably isn't correct.

There are lots of guys who choose the college route because they developed slower and need more time. People (not aimed at yourself) need to realize that Jankowski physically developed at a slower rate (growth spurt) and it usually takes guys like him to find their strength and coordination 2-3 years after the spurt (i.e., Joe Colbourne). There were lots of good players in Janko's draft year, some have developed already and some haven't.

We'll just have to agree to disagree I suppose. It's true that Vasilevski could very well become another Markstrom, goalies are pretty hard to predict. But he has played fairly well in the few games he's had for TB and people are extremely high on him, right now he's a bluechipper IMO.

Fairplay. Jankowski is a bit of a different case development wise, not many guys go through growth spurts like that. I think he's an underrated prospect that a lot of people have forgotten about and could surprise and become a legit top 6 forward one day, but right now we just don't know.

Bluechippers to me are guys like Bennett, Nylander, TT, Drouin, Vasilevski, Reinhart, etc. I just view Jankowski as a underrated prospect vs a bluechipper right now.

If he were to develop into a 3rd line center and run with Monahan-Bennett-Jankowski that would be fantastic.

[Lanny_McDonald]

Originally Posted by JiriHrdina

Boy this is a perfect illustration of 20/20 thinking. If the Flames had taken a goalie in the first round a lot of people on this board would have lost their minds.

Imagine if that was a Russian goaltender? This site would have gone China Syndrome.