2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours

[Saqe]

Even if you get that package you're essentially throwing in the towel for the next several years. Newhook doesn't replace Lindholm even close and neither does the 2023 1st rounder. So essentially you're at that point looking at a full rebuild because the older guys are going to be done when those pieces MAY have an impact. No indication the ownership wants to go that route.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

For 1 more year.

You'd get a 1st and a 2nd for Lindholm if he was just a UFA this season (ROR deal), if not more.

An extra season at something less than his $5M if you were to retain would be enormous value.

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I can see it being closer to the ballpark if it's Newhook and not Byram. Agreed. But Byram tips it way over. Though dude has had problems staying healthy.

I'm actually not sure it does tip it over when I look at it more.

30 GP last year, 17 GP this year.

It's looking like he can't stay healthy - this could absolutely be Colorado selling high.

[Sec214]

Originally Posted by Saqe

Even if you get that package you're essentially throwing in the towel for the next several years. Newhook doesn't replace Lindholm even close and neither does the 2023 1st rounder. So essentially you're at that point looking at a full rebuild because the older guys are going to be done when those pieces MAY have an impact. No indication the ownership wants to go that route.

How so? Lindholm isn't even our top line center this year... Kadri is.

[ForeverFlameFan]

Originally Posted by Sec214

Colorado

Lindholm (Retained)

Calgary
1st 2023
2nd 2024
Newhook or Byram
Rodrigues (Cap)

Sure looks like a nice start for a retool

Yes on Newhook, he and Byram are not the same value. Byram > Newhook.

Way too much going to Calgary. Also, why is colorado trading Rodrigues when he’s been great for them at the value contract?

[Jiri Hrdina]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

You'd get a 1st and a 2nd for Lindholm if he was just a UFA this season (ROR deal), if not more.

An extra season at something less than his $5M if you were to retain would be enormous value.



I'm actually not sure it does tip it over when I look at it more.

30 GP last year, 17 GP this year.

It's looking like he can't stay healthy - this could absolutely be Colorado selling high.

I think it would be more them selling low, if they are confident (which is a big if) that going forward he can stay healthy.
hard player to value because when healthy he's a #1 Dman. But the concussions are absolutely a concern. He could have a short career.

[Jason14h]

If you trade Hanifin and Toffolli for example you get assets but you also get cap space for the offseason

Every offseason we see good players going for 2nd and 3rd round picks because of cap restraints .

The Flames just fall in love with their players . We are against the cap , aren’t good , and have no prospect pipeline . Not sure how running it back next year and then having a worse team going forward (with all the FAs) is a good long term strategy

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by Sec214

How so? Lindholm isn't even our top line center this year... Kadri is.

that's a weird way to spell Backlund

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Jason14h

If you trade Hanifin and Toffolli for example you get assets but you also get cap space for the offseason

Every offseason we see good players going for 2nd and 3rd round picks because of cap restraints .

The Flames just fall in love with their players . We are against the cap , aren’t good , and have no prospect pipeline . Not sure how running it back next year and then having a worse team going forward (with all the FAs) is a good long term strategy

Hanifin is probably the one I'd look at re-signing to be honest. I don't see him costing more than $6M, he's still young enough, and he gives you a core of Hanifin, Andersson, and Weegar long term.

Lindholm, Toffoli, Zadorov, and Tanev are the one's I'd personally shop.

I don't want to have to lock Lindholm up for 8 years at $9M+ which is going to be the ask.

Zadorov is having a career year sell high.

Toffoli a great season too sell high.

Tanev maybe I'd wait until next deadline or the offseason, just because injuries have hurt him this year.

But really you should probably be able to get a 1st+ for Toffoli, probably a 1st for Zadorov (if Gavrikov who is worse gets that), and a 1st+++ for Lindholm.

That actually sets you up really well in the offseason.

[bax]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

It's how (and why) Tampa paid as much as they did for Coleman and Goodrow and then won two cups.

Hanifin, Backlund, Tanev, Toffoli, Lindholm, and Zadorov would all have huge value if you shopped them this year.

Especially if you retain salary.

They have to make the tough decisions. Do you want to re-sign any of those guys to 8 year deals through their 30s? If the answer is no then you should be shopping them now. (Hanifin / Lindholm are the two you'd probably think about long term deals, Backlund/Tanev if they come back cheap/ shorter term, I'm personally shopping and selling high on Toffoli and Zadorov).

I don't think they can take the same risk they took with Gaudreau / Tkachuk and go into the last year with them as UFAs/RFAs and hope you make a run.

Coleman was making 1.8 and Goodrow was making 925K.

The extra years on their contracts were so valuable because they were so inexpensive. Look at the realistic destinations for players like Toffoli, Zadorov, Hanifin, etc.

They can’t fit contracts like theirs. They are all good deals, but the aren’t that cheap

[D as in David]

We finally get that coveted strength up the middle so that Backlund can move to the 3rd line and we're looking to undo that already? With no heir apparent in the pipeline? You'd better be going full rebuild if they make that move.

[Saqe]

Originally Posted by Sec214

So your prepared to give Lindholm a 8x8+ adding to our other long-term nightmares we have?

No but it's not about what I want, if it was up to me I would've fired Trelving and rebuild like four years ago lol.

I'm just saying that they picked a direction last summer by going all in and need to see at least another year with this group before selling. If things are equally mediocre next year then sure I guess, start selling, because everything they bet on has utterly failed and the Flames are stuck in purgatory for the next few years anyway.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by bax

Coleman was making 1.8 and Goodrow was making 925K.

The extra years on their contracts were so valuable because they were so inexpensive. Look at the realistic destinations for players like Toffoli, Zadorov, Hanifin, etc.

They can’t fit contracts like theirs. They are all good deals, but the aren’t that cheap

Lindholm at 50% retained is $2.5M

Toffoli would be $2.1M

Zadorov would be $1.9M

Those are the three that I'd shop this deadline, and the Flames could retain salary on up to 3 players and I would 100% weaponize that for a maximum return right now.

Any team that thinks they are a contender would be falling over backwards to try to get any of those guys for under $2.5M for two cup runs and a full season next year.

And really I don't think it completely kills next year's roster.

Huberdeau - Kadri - Dube
Mangiapane-Backlund - Coleman
Pelletier - Zary - ????
Lewis - Ruzicka - Duehr

Hanifin - Andersson
Kylington - Tanev
??? - Weegar

Markstrom
Wolf

And you'd have assets and cap room to add to that with the guys you moved out. For example maybe the Panthers have to move Duclair due to cap issues. You could monetize that cap space and add Duclair to the roster.

[sureLoss]

Boeser's agent is trying to facilitate a trade to the Wild.

https://theathletic.com/4163349/2023...shared_article

It’s no secret that Brock Boeser is on the trade block in Vancouver.

And the Burnsville, Minn., native would love a return to his home state to play for the Wild, who could use some help with scoring in their top six.

The problem is Boeser’s contract, as he has two years left after this one at a $6.65 million average annual value. Those are the years Minnesota will be cap-crunched.

But agent Ben Hankinson, with permission from the Canucks, said he’s been in contact with Wild general manager Bill Guerin about trying to find a way to make it work.

“They’re trying to move some things around, potentially,” Hankinson said Wednesday on The Athletic Hockey Show. “More importantly, maybe are they on the inside (of the playoffs)? They obviously had a big win last night. There’s 82 games, you don’t think one win would be so important. But where are they sitting? Does Billy want to add? Or could he be a potential seller?

“But where does Brock Boeser fit? I think he fits in perfectly (as) a top-six scoring wing, probably playing with (Matt) Boldy. But there are other pieces in play. There are rumors that (Jordan) Greenway could be going. Obviously the whole (Matt) Dumba rumors. (Calen) Addison has been scratched a little bit, too. There’s a ton at play.”

[kyuss275]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You have that reversed. Ownership is living the fantasy notion that this garbage ass roster even has a shot at winning now. If you can't stomach a full rebuild then pull what Armstrong is up to. He's clowning the hell out of us right now. 3 2023 1sts!

Because Armstrong has ownership approval to do it. I doubt ownership gives approval for something like that. I’m sure they would consult with Sutter who he wants to keep next year. I think Tre is as good as gone. Even if Sutter doesn’t want certain players they won’t be dealt for picks. It will be a hockey trade in summer involving players that help now . I don’t agree with it , but it is what it is.

[SuperMatt18]

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You have that reversed. Ownership is living the fantasy notion that this garbage ass roster even has a shot at winning now. If you can't stomach a full rebuild then pull what Armstrong is up to. He's clowning the hell out of us right now. 3 2023 1sts!

It's also different scenarios TBH.

ROR was a UFA that likely wasn't going to re-sign. Easy to move.

Tarasenko is a UFA that has wanted out for 2 seasons. Easy to move.

I don't think he's doing anything special. If anything just kind of got lucky they are having a bad season because it made the decision easy.

Flames tend to time their sucking in seasons where we have few UFAs which is the issue.

[Tkachukwagon]

https://twitter.com/user/status/1628447336262430726

This makes too much sense for the Flames

[Ashasx]

Originally Posted by Tkachukwagon

https://twitter.com/user/status/1628447336262430726

This makes too much sense for the Flames

It makes sense, except then our owner would have to pay Smith's salary.

[DionTheDman]

Is Oliver's situation still the elephant in the room, or is that pretty much dead cap space from here on until the rest of the season (at least)?

[Macho0978]

Originally Posted by SuperMatt18

Hanifin is probably the one I'd look at re-signing to be honest. I don't see him costing more than $6M, he's still young enough, and he gives you a core of Hanifin, Andersson, and Weegar long term.

Lindholm, Toffoli, Zadorov, and Tanev are the one's I'd personally shop.

I don't want to have to lock Lindholm up for 8 years at $9M+ which is going to be the ask.

Zadorov is having a career year sell high.

Toffoli a great season too sell high.

Tanev maybe I'd wait until next deadline or the offseason, just because injuries have hurt him this year.

But really you should probably be able to get a 1st+ for Toffoli, probably a 1st for Zadorov (if Gavrikov who is worse gets that), and a 1st+++ for Lindholm.

That actually sets you up really well in the offseason.

I'd be shocked if Hanifin re-signs for somewhere around $6M. IMO he's getting over $8M.

Zadorov could be locked up around $5M. I'd keep him and shop Hanfin at 50% retained and re-sign Zadorov. Return would be much better too.

Zadorov also brings things to the table the rest don't. Hanifin, Weegar, Rasmus are all similar in skills/size. None are elite PP dmen either, so I'd like to see 1 of the 3 dmen that are supposed to bring the offense out and then look for someone who actual brings it at a high level.

Draft forwards and use prospects to replace Lindholm and Toffoli.

I'd also be ok with changing Lindholm to Backlund too. Backlund is almost 34 and playing his best hockey. Sure, we could keep him for cheap after next deal but really 36-year old Backlund is only going to be good for so long. Trading Lindholm gets rid of any chance to compete next year anyways.

[Yeah_Baby]

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

Is Oliver's situation still the elephant in the room, or is that pretty much dead cap space from here on until the rest of the season (at least)?

I'm sure they've made their plans and just haven't been public about it.