2022/2023 Trade Speculation and Rumours - Page 544 - Calgarypuck Forums - The Unofficial Calgary Flames Fan Community

Jiri Hrdina · 02-22-2023, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

You have that reversed. Ownership is living the fantasy notion that this garbage ass roster even has a shot at winning now. If you can't stomach a full rebuild then pull what Armstrong is up to. He's clowning the hell out of us right now. 3 2023 1sts!

I'm not saying I agree with what ownership wants, but that IS reality.
But continue to bang your head against a wall.

Jiri Hrdina · 02-22-2023, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sec214

This team isnt winning, this team isnt making the playoffs. 7 Points back of the oilers/kraken for 3rd in the pacific and 4 back of a wildcard tied in games with the wild.

Not my point.
What you want is disconnected from the objectives of the organization.
So unless those objectives change, pining for a re-build or selling off to get picks, is rather pointless.

Monahammer · 02-22-2023, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

If the team wants to try to compete next season (which is highly likely) but believe the mix of players is off, then they will likely try to change that in the off-season because that's when that business gets done.
I can't see a world where this organization sells off core players for picks. That's not what they are trying to do.

Define core player. Our core can't have 10 players. If you're counting that many then it's easy to identify it as a losing core.

Huberdeau
Lindholm
Kadri
Andersson
Weegar

That's the core because of contracts. Then you have

Mangiapane
Dube
Pelletier
Duehr
Zadorov

Those are probably keep pieces- younger, contracts recently signed.

Everyone else should be on the table.

Saqe · 02-22-2023, 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sec214

Retain the max and get tons of assets.

Toffoli - 1st Rounder or 2nd Bluechip
Lindholm - 1st ++
Backlund - 1st +
Tanev - 1st or 2nd Bluechip
Hanafin - This guy I would resign but you listen as well.

Play some 4D Chess to get markstrom a new home and bobs your uncle.

Look the org went for it as best as the could, our superstars left and the current team isnt working. This organization cannot afford to lose assets for nothing for awhile. You can't live you life saying "Maybe next year" they'll sort it out, what if they don't?

Gio, Monahan and Johnny didn't get sold. All because of what Loyalty/chance to resign? give me a break this is pro sports.

They're not selling the farm after handing out something like 180 million dollars for three veteran players for the next eight years.

Even a re-tool (selling Lindholm or Hanifin) seems counterproductive. Anything you get back for those guys is going to be a downgrade in the short term with the dice roll that you hopefully upgrade in the long. Meanwhile your current core is getting older and you probably have shut down any playoff / cup aspirations for the next couple of years. After which you rinse and repeat with the older guys because they'll be over the hill.

Monahammer · 02-22-2023, 10:23 AM

Hanifin and toffoli are the realistic retool trade pieces. Cost controlled, good producers. Contracts under 5 mil and one more season each. Both should be in the 1st realm of value. Neither is likely to contribute to us winning the cup.

Jiri Hrdina · 02-22-2023, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Define core player. Our core can't have 10 players. If you're counting that many then it's easy to identify it as a losing core.

Huberdeau
Lindholm
Kadri
Andersson
Weegar

That's the core because of contracts. Then you have

Mangiapane
Dube
Pelletier
Duehr
Zadorov

Those are probably keep pieces- younger, contracts recently signed.

Everyone else should be on the table.

10 is arbitrary.
My point is they are not trading good players for picks. They aren't going to flip Hanifin for a pick. They may choose to move him for a forward, but that type of deal more typically happens in the off-season.

But Hanifin and Tanev should be on that list. They aren't selling those guys for picks. Not this year anyways. Maybe next year if the team isn't winning. Or maybe they move some guys player for player.

They aren't moving guys who are playing up the lineup and have term remaining for futures.

SuperMatt18 · 02-22-2023, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

We took toffoli with multiple years left as a deadline add. In fact, tre has stated his preference for this type of acquisition. Not sure why its suddenly unpalatable for others to consider. A cost controlled hanifin and toffoli should have significant value.

It's how (and why) Tampa paid as much as they did for Coleman and Goodrow and then won two cups.

Hanifin, Backlund, Tanev, Toffoli, Lindholm, and Zadorov would all have huge value if you shopped them this year.

Especially if you retain salary.

They have to make the tough decisions. Do you want to re-sign any of those guys to 8 year deals through their 30s? If the answer is no then you should be shopping them now. (Hanifin / Lindholm are the two you'd probably think about long term deals, Backlund/Tanev if they come back cheap/ shorter term, I'm personally shopping and selling high on Toffoli and Zadorov).

I don't think they can take the same risk they took with Gaudreau / Tkachuk and go into the last year with them as UFAs/RFAs and hope you make a run.

DionTheDman · 02-22-2023, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Once you get into the 20s I don't think this draft is materially better.
It's better at the very top, and through the mid teens.
And you aren't getting those picks.

But with additional ammunition in the first round, it would give the opportunity for us to use those assets to move up higher to grab a more coveted prospect.

traptor · 02-22-2023, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monahammer

Hanifin and toffoli are the realistic retool trade pieces. Cost controlled, good producers. Contracts under 5 mil and one more season each. Both should be in the 1st realm of value. Neither is likely to contribute to us winning the cup.

Not sure you can afford to move hanifin unless youre blowing it up. He's only 26. We have very little for top 4 defence in the pipeline right now. I'm very doubtful that we ever see kylington in a flames uniform again and even if he comes back there is no gurantee he will be any good. Tamev will be 34 and is ufa next season with an injury history. Doubtful you can bank on him for your top 4. So your left with only 2/4 top 4 d if you move hanifin.

I would start with tanev and backlund. We need to get younger

Jiri Hrdina · 02-22-2023, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DionTheDman

But with additional ammunition in the first round, it would give the opportunity for us to use those assets to move up higher to grab a more coveted prospect.

I think moving up will be tough this year but yes true.
Again I'm not disagreeing that it's a valid strategy.
But it's completely disconnected from where this franchise is.
They aren't re-building
They aren't interested in using their good players to acquire picks and prospects
They are trying to win now. And unless there is a sudden shift in strategy that will be the case heading into next season.
Doesn't mean they won't make changes, but those changes will be based on does it give the team a better chance of contending now. Not re-building.

Sec214 · 02-22-2023, 10:32 AM

Colorado

Lindholm (Retained)

Calgary
1st 2023
2nd 2024
Newhook or Byram
Rodrigues (Cap)

Sure looks like a nice start for a retool

Jiri Hrdina · 02-22-2023, 10:34 AM

Trades look nice when it's terrible for the other team.

Yeah_Baby · 02-22-2023, 10:35 AM

I think the only way Lindy gets traded is if someone buys me a Lindholm jersey.

SuperMatt18 · 02-22-2023, 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

I think moving up will be tough this year but yes true.
Again I'm not disagreeing that it's a valid strategy.
But it's completely disconnected from where this franchise is.
They aren't re-building
They aren't interested in using their good players to acquire picks and prospects
They are trying to win now. And unless there is a sudden shift in strategy that will be the case heading into next season.
Doesn't mean they won't make changes, but those changes will be based on does it give the team a better chance of contending now. Not re-building.

Thing is they need to be thinking beyond just next season too though.

What you should be doing is acquiring assets for aging out pieces (Toffoli, Tanev for example)

And then if you still want to go for it move those assets for young pieces at the draft / in the offseason.

What the Blues are trying to do with Meier is a good example.

If you can get 1st round picks for those guys nobody is saying you have to keep the pick but maybe you could then flip one of those picks for an RFA.

Sec214 · 02-22-2023, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Trades look nice when it's terrible for the other team.

You drastically undervalue Lindholm the player and his contract.

SuperMatt18 · 02-22-2023, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Trades look nice when it's terrible for the other team.

Really...

If you send them two years at Lindholm at $2.5M for example then you better be getting at least that return.

1st
2nd
Newhook

Really isn't all that much IMO. Actually feel like that's a bit of a steal for Colorado. Byram instead of Newhook maybe pushes it the other direction, but he's also very injury prone.

1 Year of RoR just returned a 1st, 2nd, and he's older and less effective than Lindholm at this age. 2 years of a top line center who is close to a PPG, and would have another year at $2.5M if you retain salary should have an enormous return.

TrentCrimmIndependent · 02-22-2023, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Trades look nice when it's terrible for the other team.

I'd like some of what you're smoking.

Lindholm is a top 5 value contract in the league

prizefighterinferno · 02-22-2023, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Hrdina

Trades look nice when it's terrible for the other team.

That's pretty dismissive. You can argue about the specific pieces but acquiring a top line C at Lindholm's price point (especially if there was retention) with an additional affordable year for a team squarely in the window would command a very high price.

I very much doubt Colorado would move Byram but I suppose he is about to get a lot more expensive and Colorado has been vocal about wanted to add at 2C. If Byram isn't including I think the rest of that is an underpay, personally.

Jiri Hrdina · 02-22-2023, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TrentCrimmIndependent

I'd like some of what you're smoking.

Lindholm is a top 5 value contract in the league

For 1 more year.

Saqe · 02-22-2023, 10:45 AM

Even if you get that package you're essentially throwing in the towel for the next several years. Newhook doesn't replace Lindholm even close and neither does the 2023 1st rounder. So essentially you're at that point looking at a full rebuild because the older guys are going to be done when those pieces MAY have an impact. No indication the ownership wants to go that route.